[FAQ]

Question:
Have you ever done motion capture? If you did you would know how crazy you sound?

Answer:
What was conveyed in my idea is a much more simplified version than the HP commercial, please dun be confused. (Maybe the image confused people also..). In the idea conveyed, I have only three triggers: Next, Previous, Switch.

Therefore, no complicated gesture detection, the idea is just to have for example: when the presenter raises his right hand to a certain extent: next will be triggered. Similar, raising left hand to a certain extent triggers previous. It is not like when he showing a victory hand sign will trigger sth or sth complicated like tat.

If I have three cameras to capture the three triggers, it can be done easily by me myself(One point to left, one to right, one to up). But if these three triggers are to be detected in one camera, I do not know how in flash...but motion detection expert should be able to do it..just raise hand detection!.

[FAQ 2]

Question:

What went wrong with the remote controller for presentations in the first place. Simple easy to use no setup.

Answer:

Hmmm..ya we can use remote control to swith between the previous and next objects to be overlayed, but that will be less interesting i think.

For example, if raise hand to a high position can trigger switching source between slide mode and video mode, then the presenter can say "Now let us look at some facts" and raise his hand high and virtually "pull down" a slide. In the big screen, high hand position is triggered and a conventional slide is animated down to cover his video.

Similar when he do not want the slide anymore, he can act as if he throw the slide up to the sky by swiping his hand from down to top, when top position is triggered again, the slide will animate up and switching back to video mode again.

Sth like this...will be interesting..it hink?

I'd really like to see this in action if it's possible.

I think this is doable. I also love that a lot of the confusion has been worked out before hand through discussions in the forums.

I bet this could be tested fairly quickly using the Matlab image processing toolbox. Anyone familiar with Matlab?

Last week I had to run the powerpoint slides to be in sync with the presentations given by 12 different presenters during the course of a 4hr dog-and-pony show for a 1400 member audience... b/c the presenters were too worried they'd get nervous and mess up the slide synchronization or accidentally hit the right mouse button and bring up the menu and end up looking clumsy on the three 12' video screens we had. I would give my salary to buy this and offer it on a contractual use basis to large auditoriums and public events. If the Sony Playstation can have games where kids interact with the screen via a simple low resolution web-cam for $100, then a couple thousand dollar presentation system that does effectively the same thing is certainly plausible.

[To Techguy]

I tried to put up a simulation image, hope that will explain the concept clearer. Meanwhile I m still trying to play with Camera APIs of flash, see whether I can workout a simple prototype in this voting week!

[To ccozad and PetersonLimitedCo]

Thanks for the support! I really appreciate them and they push me alot in realizing this software!

And now. What can we do to launch it?

I do seriously think we need to automate this type of thing, I am SOOO anal about the tempo of my presentations and sometimes am not able to have the laptop or a remote system at my control and it drives me nuts. When I am doing a presentation I need to concentrate on what is not in the show and that is energy, tone and passion and if I am worried about someone not que'ing proeprly it really throws things off.
I like this idea, but just some questions/observations if I may...
how about those of us that need to engage our audiance and move around? Would you need to stand in one spot, or be retricted to an area on the stage?
Also what about natural hand movements as you speak would this trigger unwanted activation from the system?
What about something such as voice recognition that triggers on things like "Command - Slide mode" .... or even..."Next " or "Back" or "Movie mode"..

Seriously, I really hope this idea can be a successful off-line product from CH community!

Goosie, While I m trying my best to work out a prototype, I am thinking that there are several things that will need some advices from the CH community!

1. A Good Name for this Product!! It can't be Next Generation Presentation with Motion Detection! Any suggestion will be appreciated!
After getting a good name, then a website can be launched!

2. Patent. I am thinking, any chance that certain part of this product is patentable? The whole thing is quite straightforward, but I was thinking, IS IT POSSIBLE TO PATENT THE NAVIGATION METHOD FOR THIS PRODUCT?

I m looking at navigation because we have a good example! Last year Apple paid Creative $100million for infringing the super straightforward menu navigation system! Hmmm.....

[http://news.bbc.co.u...usiness/5280394.stm]

For example, I am thinking, is the way of navigation patentable? (Next, Previous & Switch source by touching left/right/up boundaries). Last year, Creative successfully sued Apple's Ipod for copying its Menu navigation style...

[Sorry certain part of the above message is repeated]

[Replying HiChriso]

1. You have got a point. This system is not suitable for presenter who like to move around. If the presenter expects virtual stuff to fly around him he is better to be fixed at a certain position, which is natural too i guess?

2. Regarding whether hand movement will trigger stuff accidentally. The area of trigger will not be too close to the body. It should be a reasonable stretch of the hand in order to trigger the next/previous object. Therefore, normal hand movement in front of the chest area should never trigger anything.

3. Voice activation is hard. if he is selling "backpack" in the presentation he might keep triggering the "back"?? -_-||| In contrast, a user who are trained or practiced with this product can conduct an ultra smooth presentation if he controls his gesture well. As I said, he can stretch his hand out to grab an expected object and throw them away by stretching the hand again. He can grab a diagram from the sky...etc.

Magickaito, your focus on patenting is a bit of a downer to me. Gee lets not even think about that until a plausible navigation mechanism in determined. Certainly you don't want to depend on patent revenues to survive, as you won't have the muscle needed to collect.

I think motion detection won't be much more superior to using a remote. Maybe you can create a superior remote?

If you do motion capture, then you setup entails using a webcam/videocam , and plugging it into a dedicated box (I wouldn't trust motion detection to run reliably otherwise). That's a LOT of hardware competing against a tiny remote control in a presenter's hand. Those remotes can have enough buttons to do whatever you need (assign a macro), and if the presenter wants to move his hand while hitting a button, that's pretty much the same effect.

I'd suggest thinking about Nintendo Wii (or PS/3 controller) and what possibilities something like that may provide. If you are building custom hardware, it could be much smaller, maybe something you clip on a sleeve. It could use bluetooth. The end product could be very slick.

But to start, I'd see who's connecting motion detector video game controllers to PCs, how they do it, and try prototype control of presentation software using that. I think we could cobble together something functional, and that could be used to determine if a presenter can realistically control a presentation via hand motion (even if a video game controller is in his hand).

If that works... then its time to worry about custom hardware.

It sounds like your idea ties in with the new Gyro Inertial Sensing Solutions (much like the Wii Remote that Gordon speaks of). Watson Industries holds some patents on these and has plenty of technical papers you can sort through if you wish: http://www.watson-gyro.com/reports.html . Although much of their products are geared toward much larger implementations, such as aeronautical tracking, they do handle all aspects of the technology, and they own the patents (at least in Germany). You may also want to look over the Symposium Gyro Technology, as it relates more to your application of this technology: http://www.ite.uni-k...y_abstracts_2007.pdf .

Using this technology you could implement it as a simple watch with BlueTooth capabilities to provide a wireless solution. To take care of the issues of accidentally setting it off, you could provide a "kill switch" that would turn it off temporarily when the presenter presses a certain button, or even makes a specific gesture that could be programmed in by the presenter.

Excellent idea, and I wish you the best.

Such a remote allready exists: the Wiimote. Don't laugh! I saw some DJs hack a wiimote at a dance club once. I think this could be done as a software application for the Wii. Of course, the businessperson would have to own a Wii.

Or you could use the Wii as a model for the kind of tool you are trying to create. Sounds like you need to do more research on how to implement this.

Patenting is not my focus. As i said i have zero experience in patenting. That's why i was trying to ak the community.what's the possibility. looking at a possible product like this.

I am sorry if the navigation patenting stuff sounded stupid. ^__^

Hmmm..actually there are two layers of ideas in my idea i think. The first one wd be the overlaying of text, images or even simple animation, on top of the video of the presenter in real time.

And next, how to trigger these stuffs. Instead of clicking remote controllers I am proposing motion captures. Because I m thinking if the presenter standing still on the stage and these fancy stuffs flying around him in sequence. That will be just a small step beyond powerpoint.

Then, I thought it is cool if a presenter can reach out next object to be presented by his hand and discard current object by his hand too..sth like tat. That's why the first thing came into my mind, is motion detection.

I understand that an advanced Remote controller in hand will be more reliable than a video capture device. As it is absolute trigger, you press it you got it. Thanks for the idea for hacking a WII controller first, hmm...maybe i shd get myself i WII asap...hmm..

Thank DRV for the GYRO related materials. I know nothing about it. Maybe tat's why, my thinking is not oriented towards GYRO-based controller like a WII controller..

An innovation in a hardware area takes so much more courage and knowledge than an innovation based on pure software codes..sth we are more familiar with...

I appreciates the feedback from the community. If I have any progress on my prototype I will update you guys asap!

As far as Wiimote, it has been hacked a long long time ago for Linux.

Anyways what is wrong with the remotes people use now?
1. Cheep (cost me next to nothing)

2. Small and portable (I have one that fits in my laptop slot!)

3. Have loads of reliable features (that same small laptop remote I have has well over 20 buttons I can control everything even my computer power or other applications. Also, when I push the button it works, no need to act like a crazy person waving my hands in frustration.)

4. No real set-up its plug and play. (Also, you don't have to set up any cameras in the right spot or angle)

5. Not hard to take around with you extremely mobile.

6. I can still act everything out if I wanted because I made the presentation I know all the slides. If I want to act like I am pulling something across the screen I can.

There are tons of Wii hacks out there. I think most of here would know it. :)

Hmm..remember the microsoft surface project? You can use your finger to drag a virtual photo beside your phone and "throw" it to another phone on the table, in order to transfer this image.

Why in this way? It can also be done by simply clicking a button, select the target device and click send.....

I was just looking at some possibilities. So please do not be too over-reacted over this. ^__^

Microsoft surface project? Yes, I know about that, for those that don't:
http://www.popularme...ndustry/4217348.html

There are also things like electronic-whiteboards that are basically a cool expensive touch-pad.

But, there is a difference this idea is using motion tracking.
A bit like the sony EyeToy
http://www.us.playst...mes/EyeToy_Play/OGS/
or the other more pro systems used for films and animation.

What are you crowd sourcing? The hardware or the software both are all ready available. Gesture tracking is not a new idea.

Next, there are company's with EXISTING COMMERCIAL SYSTEMS:
http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=8dQZcDZ8ExY

You don't even need hardware this one only uses a webcam.
http://www.youtube.c.../watch?v=ml4_MIM52g0

I know it is just an idea and all, but this has all ready been done.

Hi Kevin,

What I proposed is, virtual information overlaying on top of the body of the presenter, gesture of the presenter can trigger next, previous for these information. He can also trigger switch source to switch from video mode to traditional slide mode.

Thanks for links to others gesture related project. :)

My 2 cents - I really don't see much value in a gesture-based slide advancing system. Unless it was using really complicated hardware/software, it would likely be glitchy and I don't see much advantage over a standard el-cheapo projector remote.

What would be cool is a way to achieve something more inline with the original idea, which I think is super-cool but technically very difficult. Here's one way this could maybe be done:

The presenter could have a special wand that the system would track in real time. When the presenter holds up the wand and presses a button, a second projector could project a image, graph, video, etc.. directly on the background below the wand. The wand could also have a mini screen that could be pulled down, so that the second image could be projected onto the screen instead of onto the background, thus achieving the 3D effect from the commercial.

Just a thought, although in my personal opinion this is getting into fairly complex territory that may be out of scope for a CH project.

Hihi cougar,

In fact, most of the community members had been focusing on the gesture part. The other important aspects of this idea is actually composition of the video of the presenter and certain important information to be conveyed, in real time. This will virtually remove the boundaries between the traditional slide information and the presenter. By having important information "floating" around the presenter in real time, the audience can now have a very high level of focus in that particular information because the presenter and the information, is now presented together, on the big screen.

Some slightly more elaboration:

We can now prepare two level of information:
1. Traditional slides, and
2. Key information to be overlayed in real time, which can be some images like a handphone in the simulation image, or even some animation.

E.g. When you are introducing a phone, instead of presenting slide 1,2,3,...until the last slide. Presenter can now present slide 1,2,3,..switch to key information A,B,...then switch back to slide 4,5,6,7,8,9,10, then switch to key information C,D,etc.

I feel very bad, since most of the community members do not like this idea although it was ranked high..

:)

My first idea. It might be seriously flawed. But I hope it is still acceptable. ;)

"By having important information "floating" around the presenter in real time"
Maybe you could do this on the Star Trek enterprise.

"live video of presenter is broadcasted to the big screen through a camera"
You can do this if you have a green screen, lots more camera gear and the correct lighting.

"Presenter can now present slide 1,2,3,..switch to key information A,B,...then switch back to slide 4,5,6,7,8,9,10, then switch to key information C,D,etc."
That or on my remote I can just hit the slide number on the number pad.

Remote Wand
http://ieeexplore.ie...pdf?arnumber=1505336

OR

There are also finger remote controls that slip on your finger.

OR

The HP Gyration Remote Use in-air hand gestures or the keypad!!!!!
http://www.costcentr...646A/M34497/froogle/

HiHi Kevin Cox,

If you are thinking that my idea is about creating a virtual image that really float around the presenter, yeah I think you have the potential to join a star trek enterprise!

hehe

And there's no need for green screen. We do not need to change the background of presenter.

Sigh.

Now I totally see why there are so many members here but so few ideas each week!

- Real Time composition of key information together with the video of the presenter, as depicted in the simulation image, is the 1st level of the idea.

:)

The remote controllers manufacturers do not provide such a convenient interface yet.

Go Kevin go go go, i will be glad if you can find some examples that prove me wrong. Try to find applications that allow you to conveniently overlay text or images on top of your video, inreal time, during a presentation. And you can, switch between traditional slide mode or video mode.

I hope,

This is clear ^___________^

Gesture just play the trigger part. Overlaying is another part of the idea.

Dear all,

Sorry I am abit long-winded.

But once again, I would llike to say that I really enjoyed these few days staying in CH. :) Although there are some stressful moments, but most of the time, I enjoyed reading comments, reading new ideas that are posted by the community. Thank you who supported me and at least liked the idea at first glance ^_^ Also thanks those who consistently providing real life information to prove me wrong..that's sth frens around me wouldnt do when I tell them my new idea. So I can sense the POWER. :)

Really thanks for everyone who have voted me :)

"And there's no need for green screen. We do not need to change the background of presenter." You will if you want it to look anything like the image "simulated image" in your idea post. But, ya that is true you can have just the video stream if you want.

"Real Time composition of key information together with the video of the presenter."

This technique is used for almost every TV broadcast. But, what about power point? Ta Da:
Power Point Live video & text in your presentation:
http://www.informit....seqNum=107&rl=1
http://www.vicman.ne...ve-presentations.htm

This one is cool also but not live:
http://www.techcrunc...erpoint-get-married/

"You will if you want it to look anything like the image "simulated image" in your idea post. But, ya that is true you can have just the video stream if you want."

Hihihi, lol. So the image confused you.icic. It's fine. You are right. Sorry for leading your mind to a very complicated direction. The background of the user in the simulation image should be the background of the presenter, no change. We only overlay effects around thebody of the presenter! Yeah!

Yeah TV Broadcast. Sth like that but we are doing in presentation!
Hi I still do not see my ideas in the links you provided. Whew.

"doing in presentation!" I have all ready linked to other ideas by company's like Microsoft and the like that have implemented live video and text overlay for a presentation using power point. Maybe the links are old.

Here is a link to show how to by Microsoft:
http://office.micros.../HA010348141033.aspx

Here is another professional option:
http://www.vertigoxmedia.com/

Hihi my university lecturers use exactly the microsoft software you mentioned in the links.

You look closer, it is just a video box beside the powerpoint. They are not mixing together. :)

Well you can do that except you need a plugs or added software:
Make a very high end power point with LIVE video:
http://www.instanteffects.com/

Video Slide Background
http://office.micros...x?pid=CE010820981033
http://www.animation..._text_over_video.htm
OR
Regular video and PP text over top
http://officeone.mvp...text_over_video.html

Eventually you might as well buy a professional system and ditch power point:
http://www.vertigoxmedia.com/

am I right to assume that you want to take what you see in the HP ad, and make that into real life?
I think it would give a interesting effect but above and beyond that it ads little to no value to the presentation.
Can you comment on the value it adds?

KevinCox,

Hmm thanks for showing me alot of links about how other people is enhancing presentations, either by allowing non-rectangular boxed-video in the powerpoint, or allowing powerpoint slides to have 3D transitions.etc.

But what I am introducing here is about compositing presenter and information together...you got it?

Hi GodsLight,

HP ads is the inspiration. We do not need that much of stunts in a presentation for the time being but, at least, the video shows us how interesting or captivating it can be, when real life human can interacts with virtual information.

That's one main value added - changing the presentation experience and therefore impress the audience. Messages to be conveyed to them can be better understood and absorbed.

Besides, distance between the information and the presenter is closer. Audience can be focused on the presenter (maybe facial expression) and the information simultaneously. I think alot of time, we either look at the presenter, or look at the slide behind him, and then look at the presenter....definitely impossible to be able to focus on both of them at the same time. do you think so?

Magickaito, this is a great idea. I wish I would have said it earlier in the voting stages. You've also spent alot of time developing it before you put it on the block, and addressed all concerns tentatively.

Don't let Kevin_Cox get to you friend. His idea is in 3rd and he's trying to sway the voters by causing a stir for you and "Green City Guidebooks" (2nd place). I've seen it happen before.

Enjoy your win (hopefully) and welcome to CH.

I just worry that that is not enough value to make people swich from Powerpoint to your program.

Groundload,

Thanks for the encouragement! This is a nice place indeed:)

Gods_Light,

Hmm, I understand your concern...but the users do not need to sacrifice powerpoint actually.

In fact, the "traditional slide mode" will very likely be showing powerpoint slides. Since I cannot afford to reinvent the wheel by creating an interface for users to create a traditional slide, so very likely the software has to be able to "import" prepared powerpoint slides so that the user can switch between video mode and the traditional slide mode.

Therefore we do not challenge the powerpoint directly. We spice it up!

Magickaito,

I don't mean to focus too extensively on motion capture. If another aspect of this is the interaction and overlay of elements onto a video stream, then I guess the problem of needing a dedicated PC for motion capture is moot.... you'll need dedicated hardware for the overlay of video elements anyway.

The tighter the integration and coordination between presenter and interactive presentation elements, the more chance for screw-ups... I don't think I'd want to use this sort of tool for any of my presentations. But others might, and what you are proposing is at least technically possible.

As Kevin_Cox points out, the overlay of PowerPoint on top is possible and done...
http://officeone.mvp...text_over_video.html

But the HP presentation you site for inspiration for how interactivity might look is not live. I believe it would have made for a pretty poor live presentation. My favorite presentations, such as An Inconvenient Truth or Identity 2.0 ( http://identity20.com/media/WEB2_2005/ ) are very simple. If you have the presenter dragging stuff into and off the frame those elements are smaller and can't convey that much information (like a graph).

What is the "killer effect" that overlaying PPT type elements on top of the presenter and allowing for interaction can do? Advancing slides and positioning elements doesn't sound like enough.

Hi Gord,

Some of my thoughts:

Hmmm at least I would like to say, for the text over video link which can overlay text.ppt over video.ppt, it is different, at least from my point of view, in the sense that it doesnt allow the possibility for the interaction between the video and the overlaying elements.

Although the interaction that I have declared in this idea is very conservative at this moment, only the way it appears, and go. But I think this is one small step towards the ultimate goal - presenting by a real human interacting with virtual information. What I have suggested is simple for a start and most importantly this is within my ability. -_-
I am very sure with a bit more codings, presenters can manipulate the overlaying elements in more possibilities!

And I think It is very less interesting to overlay static powerpoint shapes ontop of a video. Unlike flash, things can be really beautiful..

You mentioned that a dedicated pc is needed, I thought most of the time we present with a laptop, don't we?

Thanks for sharing the identity 2.0 presentation, he has really refreshing slides! :) I noticed that my exposure to the internet content has been increasing exponentially after I joined CH!! ;)

You might not agree, but I thought this presentation will be a good example that can implement the overlaying idea. This is because, it is a very fast pace and simple presentation. Due to its fast pace, I am quite sure that most of the eyeballs of the audience will have to stick onto the screen until the end of the slides, while LISTENING to the speaker. That's our limitation I thought, when slides are very interesting and fast pace, we can only focus on the slides and we can really forget about how the presenter looks like for that moment, the only thing we can do is focus on the slides and LISTEN to the presenter.

If the presentation were done in HP style, he will have a chance to present himself, his looks, more than current version of presentation, I thought.

What kind of background do you have that will help you take this form a idea into a business?
and how do you envision using this community to do that?

The link I posted before lets you do what you want. First use the live video feed, then insert the presentation text graphs and the rest over top.
http://www.instanteffects.com/

Just a Funny video about how not to use power point I found:
http://video.google....6300734605135&q

“trying to sway the voters by causing a stir for you”
I had all ready talked about the same issues before in the forums during the brain storm before it was even in the contest at all GroundLoad.

Instant effects is all about 3D transitions Kevin..:)

"I had all ready talked about the same issues before in the forums during the brain storm before it was even in the contest at all GroundLoad."

Your early questions about why not remote control was already compiled as FAQ. lol.

Gods_Light,

Regarding launching, I spent a big portion of my after-working-hours in completing independent flash projects. To earn some pocket money..^_^ I am more than happy to complete another project if it is feasible.

I have been looking for someone who are willing to work out something together...but my main primarily target now is to get the some insights of the possible market response from reactions of the community.

But it appears that the responses I have received so far do not look good.

Should I continue?

This remains a question in my mind, after seeing lesser and lesser supportive voices.

I will think about this, on the way to my company, the real world assignments are waiting for me there T_T. 9:13AM already and I am still at home looking at this post. I am late again. oops..

Erm.

Last time I took one day leave on the first day I joined CH. so excited, cannot sleep and overslept. Today late again due to CH..and I noticed that I am really addicted to this place.

ANYWAY

If anyone have any idea on how gesture can enhance the experience in presentation, please share with me! thanks!

Keep em short!!

The Motion Caption might be the easy part. To project and integrate the presentation and the presenter in the screen as you imagine, you need to be able to edit the presenter image as it is captured by the camera. You can do it as they do it in the TV studios for the weatherman(woman) presentations. But this mean you need to have a physical "green screen background" behind the speaker at all times.

Magickaito~ "But it appears that the responses I have received so far do not look good. Should I continue?"

Well I think you've gotten quite a volume of feedback on this... but if no one has expressed interest in collaborating on it then at this point you'd probably be stuck going it alone. Maybe there is interest there in teaming up but its not being articulated. You are getting some good votes this week, so can't be all negative.

I'd never tell you not to try creating it yourself, because you've read all the feedback, and you still think it would be a good project. If you were UNAWARE and forging ahead then I'd say you're making a bad move.

People told George Washington Carver he should give up on the peanut. That there was no way in hell something as hard and crunchy as a peanut could be made into a delicious spread.

As far as continuing to bounce the idea off the community, that's your call. If you think you're still getting value out of it, then keep it up.

I don't think I have much more feedback I can give... I do feel like I understand the app, but I guess I'm so far from the target market I can't personally get too worked up over it.

Hi Morpheus,

I did not intend to edit background of the user, therefore no green screen needed.

Gord,

Thanks for your encouragement as well as reminder. At least someone has sincerely thought over my idea from a neutral position. I appreciate it.
I will continue to swim into the codes of web cam API and hopefully a beautiful prototype can be worked out to convince myself and the community.

Thanks everyone for the votes!

A very exciting idea, hope to hear more about it soon. Good luck!

Magickaito, friend pointed this out...
http://www.cs.cmu.ed...johnny/projects/wii/

...using a Wii controller to write on a digital white board. Sort of tangentially related.

Gesture-groking is already done (many links were published here)

AFAIK an adequate video incrustation technique is used for advertising purposes (replacing in near real-time the filmed contents of ad banners, for example during football/tennis/... matches).

Merging all this into an integrated solution seems possible.