Can you elaborate on the idea. What do you exactly mean by tagging files, e-mail, web pages etc?

check out http://www.sidefinder.net for an online demo. Basically we're going to be tagging files and web favorites the same way that we're tagging email right now.

dont get it!

doesn't google do it?

Try google desktop!

There appears to be some confusion as to how this is different from desktop search so I hope this will clear things up a bit. You can also take a look at the live demo at http://www.sidefinder.net to see it in action.

1) It makes Search easier. Not only can you search the data, but you can search the tags too. You can get at your information either directly or via a category.

2) SideFinder allows you to find things, even if you don't know exactly what you're looking for. This is because it shows you relationships to things, not just search results.

3) You can RELATE things together, even if they don't contain the same key words. If Joe sends me one message about a Ford Mustang and another about a great mechanic he knows, I can bind those 2 messages together with a tags like "cars" and "repairs". Searching by either of those terms in GDT would produce no results and they would need to be filed in 2 separate places if you put them in folders.

4) I can relate things together without even creating a name for it. Because I can use messages to find other tags, I only need to find one message to find the link to the rest.

5) We're going to be creating a means to link anything together, even outside of what desktop search indexes on your computer such as Flickr photos or Delicious web favorites.

6) GDT doesn't do a great job of constraining search results. Many times I've needed to do a lengthy scroll within what GDT shows me. SideFinder constrains the results much better so you can eliminate scrolling.

There are many more reasons why this is different than desktop search. Actually, one of the things we want to do is INTEGRATE into desktop search apps so you can tag search results. If it was tough to find the first time, tagging it will eliminate that problem for next time.

Hope this is a bit more clear.

Windows Vista has a tag function for files.
You can already tag mails in GMail.
For the other aplication I don't know...
Sounds like a good idea to make one program for all. I don't know if it's done already, but I don't think so...

P.S. You forgot Opera, Safari, Netscape ... ;-)

I think its being done too.

I for one would use such a software.

If you can do away with creating tags by typing, such as:

1. Highlighting a word/expression and saving it as a tag
2. Connecting highligted words/expressions with a "wand" and saving these links too

THAT would be helpful!!!

I'm sick and tired of typing the same words/expressions already in the text/metadata, etc.

Also ... we are a Mac shop, so think about an app that runs on all platforms.

Hi folks, thanks for all of the comments, this feedback is great. :-) In response to:

JelmerBV:

You are correct on all comments - Vista, Gmail, other apps have tagging. However, none allow you to use the SAME tags for all information. You can't use Gmail labels for anything other than Gmail. Vista tags are only good within Vista.

Let's say I'm working on a project for which I created a spreadsheet, sent a message, and took a few photos. My respective applications of choice to work with this information are Explorer, Outlook, and Picasa. Wouldn't it be nice if I could use the same project tag for all 3 items, without having to recreate it 3 times or leave any of those apps to apply it?

Opera, and other browsers - of course. :-) We want to be able to use the same tags for ANYTHING and from within ANY interface. Eventually we're going to create an API so others can build extensions to expand the application base.

Rosary_Monday:

If you know of someone who's doing tag integration like this, please fwd on. I've done some in depth competitive analysis and have only been able to find 3 main competitors: Taglocity, Tagg, and Tag2Find. All of them are specific to one type of tagging or another (email OR files), but none integrate them together.

Actually, the closest thing I've found from an integration perspective is PIM (personal information management) software such as MS OneNote and Evernote. They allow you to pull together snippets of information from many sources, and then allow you to categorize it once it's in the app. The key difference with SideFinder is that you don't need to switch interfaces to apply a category to it.

Stevesitv:

You highlighted the words right out of my mouth. One of the biggest pain points for tagging is the typing. I for one am pretty lazy, so we're going to incorporate highlighting as you suggested, auto-complete functions, and much more than that.

Let's face it; to be organized it takes discipline. We want to remove as much of that pesky discipline as possible.

I think most people are pretty jaded about trying to organize e-info. The truth is, so am I. I gave up on folders long ago because the up front work just wasn't worth it and desktop search now works exceptionally well.

However, as I stated in my previous comment, there are times where DTS just doesn't cut it so what we're trying to do with SideFinder is not to replace it, we want to ENHANCE it.

Keep the comments coming please, regardless of how you vote. This is very helpful in refining the product feature set and more importantly here, the pitch.

I think the wisdom of crowds really shines in these discussions. Assuming it's now clear for what we're doing here - what would you suggest it the best way to describe it in 3 sentences or less?

the idea is great, as is the logo. my only concern is the double-shift feature on google desktop already handles this to SOME extent. might be a good model to work from!

This concept looks amazing. My job involves managing huge amounts of data, a lot of which overlaps with each other, which makes the data management process tougher than the main job itself. I have yet to figure out exactly where this Sidefinder idea is going specifically, but it appears to be something that could make my life easier.

Good luck!!

Desktop search must come first, because it is passive. X1 is ranked #1 by most techies, but I had to switch to Copernic for email compatiblility.
Sidefinder needs to integrate and take full advantage of the passive index built by these programs before "tags" can add true value (Copernic is reporting >4x10^6 keywords from my current index). Google desktop reportedly does not keep the index synchronized as files are moved and edited, but instead, it requires a rebuild of the index. That is poor design; nevertheless, Sidefinder needs to work with all the desktop search engines, unless it will start with a new and better package. Likewise, it should work with all email progs. I am not sure about the integration with browsers, but similarly, one should also be able to choose their browser.

Blinkx Pico, is not working well for me, but the concept is inspiring for the integration of desktop search and info management. Check the products at: blinkx.com . That said, Copernic is causing me all sorts of problems, as well. Why has all the R&D effort to search and manage infinite data volumes on the internet not produced outstanding destop search and management tools to manage personal machines and small networks?

Thanks Summertime. I've seen similar apps that serve up search content based on the active screen, however I have not seen Pico. I'll check it out.

I agree, the search component is essential. I too however, have experienced many performance issues with the indexing process for DTS apps. Windows desktop brought my computer to its knees and X1, although amazing, was often unstable so it too had to be uninstalled.

Not good enough...againts the rest of better ideas here this week.

"More time is spent finding and organizing information than accomplishing the task that it serves."

Ok, just make sure that you don't have to spend more time tagging files than it would take to find them anyway! ;-)

Well, since this round is over I just wanted to post a final comment. I just sent out the following message to all of my Friends in the community that I wanted to share publicly as well.

Fwd: Open call to crowdsource my business - step 1: business plan review
August 26, 2007, 3:54 pm

Hello friends,

The first round of Idea Warz has provided some valuable insight into my business, the most notable of which is that SideFinder is missing the mark, at least as an "idea".

What I find very interesting is that I've taken it much further than the idea stage. I have spent significant time and money to get it to where it is and I thought that it would have scored higher. It hasn't, so I need to find out why.

Was the voting pool biased towards certain types of technology? Is the idea actually bad or was my pitch just off? So far I've got about 200 people signed up to test the beta so I'd assume it does hold some value. Why was it missed here?

As the cornerstone to my business plan, I am embracing crowdsourcing 100% and making the business an open book to this community. I've posted the plan on the SideFinder business Wiki so I'm putting out an open call for all to review and provide feedback. Comments can be made in the Forum.

Recently I've quit my day job and have started work on this full time, so there is no turning back. Either I succeed or fail, but one thing is for sure - I am fully committed and this is for real. I am about 20% of the way to raising my seed round capital which began last week.

If you'd like to participate, sign up for the business and have a look at the plan posted on the Wiki. If you know of other community members that may want to participate, please forward this on.

I believe this is the ultimate test for the wisdom of crowds and have faith that the collective intelligence of many IS more powerful than the few. All comments are welcome.

Mark Rosenberger, P.Eng. (aka. Chuck_Norris)
President
CNXN Incorporated
http://www.sidefinder.net
cell: 403-861-7647
mark@cnxn.ca

The computer all ready has this:

How to on Win XP:
1. Right click on file properties
2. Click the summery tab
3. Add tags and keywords

I believe Vista has a newer version of this system that is more automated as well.

When you use search it can now narrow things down.

Kevin, thanks for the comment, but the XP meta feature (and Vista) is quite a bit different from what SideFinder is doing.

1) you need to type each key word, even if it already exists (type and retype)
2) There's no tag search built in (tags only).
3) you can't just click on one of those meta tags to see related data
4) they can't be used for anything other than that file
5) there's no way to batch tag a number of files - you need to do each one individually....

the list is long here.

Outlook also has a rudimentary form of tagging with its Categories feature. They too are seldom if ever used because the UI is terrible and it makes tagging too difficult.

The point I'm trying to make here is that tagging has come and gone in many forms, however it has been done quite poorly and thus there has never been any advantage to it.

We want to make tagging exceptionally easy and I believe this is the key to it being embraced.

This is the best idea I have seen on Cambrian so far, although the principle already exist and there is *probably* a lot of competition.
This is something that should have existed since the first OS released to the mass, when hard drives got more than a gig, or when emails/websites became so widely used...

"1) you need to type each key word, even if it already exists (type and retype)"
Well how will your system make up keywords?

"2) There's no tag search built in (tags only)."
True I don't think there is a tags only search.

"3) you can't just click on one of those meta tags to see related data
4) they can't be used for anything other than that file
5) there's no way to batch tag a number of files - you need to do each one individually...."
So, the system is using parents.

From a second review, I have changed my vote to a high rating. (This is like hell freezing over, I rarely give anyone a high rating unless they have extremely strong concept.)

Wow, that's nice to hear Kevin. Come to think of it, it has gotten a bit colder here in Calgary so I guess you weren't kidding. ;-)

Regarding 1), the system doesn't make up the key word, however the key words can be re-used once created by simply checking a box. With the XP meta you need to retype them every time you want to tag a file. That said, with the nameless tagging feature, the system actually does make up the name, although the name becomes irrelevant at that point.

There is so much more that we're going to be doing with SideFinder. Automating work flow processes is the next step. (similar to Quicksilver for mac) using action tags - tags that do something with the info such as upload pictures to Flickr or Facebook.

Thanks again for the new rating.

"key words can be re-used once created by simply checking a box."
I think it might work better is there was a drop down system like smart phones. There would be way to many keywords for checkboxes. Unless it was for only category's like work, personal, etc...

On another note, how are you going to reformat the files. You are going to need to modify the basic system OS to accept this new system. Unless you find a way to automate the existing tag system to perform a better search.

Hi Kevin, if you haven't done so yet, check out the demo on the main site http://www.sidefinder.net This will give you an idea of how tags are accessed and applied.

In the case of files, you would just select the file and start checking boxes in the sidebar for tagging (works the same as tagging a message).

Tagging files will be a windows shell extension with a back end database and likely won't involve a modification of the existing meta.

Hi,

I've been looking for this for a while now!

http://mchaler.org/b...Tagging-Desktop.html

Ryan