How will you make it smaller to run on there?

Basically it would be a simple emulator that would run simple executable programs. It just needs to emulate the basic operating system environment.

What exactly do you call a mid range computer?? Desktops - even the cheapest ones are running 1.8 to over 3 Ghz with 512 megs of ram or more.
um, I think you're totally out to lunch on this. most cell phones, even smart phones are running typically 200-400 Mhz ARM cpus. Sure you could right a dos emulator to run Lotus 123 or Wordperfect, but that would be utterly useless. Second, you may not realize that all smart phones do no have DSPs for the cell phone processing, overtaxing the cell phone would result in lost calls or performance of the primary function. So let's say you manage to get Windows 3.1 running on a 240x240 pixel screen on a phone with 16 Mb ram. (probably 2 megs left over for workspace, and no flash assuming you could fit all of any version of windows on this). Then what? what do you use for a mouse.. keyboard> hard disk?

Actually I run a lot of things on my smartphone. What programs are you offering me extra?
Tommy

details plz!

how different is it from widgets?

I agree with TheGuru on this.

Just use open source apps and recompile them for your phone.
This would be the more convenient solution.

]V[oogy

Treos run Windows, so there's no point targetting an emulator at that market. Some Treos still run Palm, but that line has ended and they will all be Win in the newer models.

JavaME also has good compatibility across a range of smartphones. This isn't a full OS, but it allows deployment of real apps written in Java which can be only minor variants of their desktop versions (depending on the internals).

I agree that this is a great space to be in, but there is hefty competition from big players already.

hmm - I'm not convinced... if I'm travelling and I want to use one of my 'applications' I would always have my laptop with me... the screen on most smart phones are too small to do any real work except read/write text. Can you imagine editing a photoshop file on your phone?

is this what you're talking about? maybe I don't get your idea. can you post a case study of how someone would use?

however I do believe that there is a HUGE potential market in mobile apps - fish99 has lots of ideas in this area.

"What exactly do you call a mid range computer??"
Well I suppose by today's new standards. But, you still have to remember that it has not passed that much time. Most PDAs can easily run that average computer programs.

"So let's say you manage to get Windows 3.1 running" I am not talking about running windows, more a separate program. That will run along side the existing OS. Possibly a new OS all together.

"what do you use for a mouse.. keyboard> hard disk?"
Smartphones and pdas have a styles and a lot of the time a keyboard. They also all have both internal and external memory that can total in the gigs.

"What programs are you offering me extra?" Basically it would be start out with the most easily mobile applications. So, basically what are know as mobile apps that don't require installation.

"Treos run Windows, so there's no point targetting an emulator at that market. Some Treos still run Palm, but that line has ended and they will all be Win in the newer models."
Treos run on a windows mobile, this is not even close to the windows that is on the computer. Anyways, this will be most likely a program that will run along side with the OS or possibly replace the OS. You can replace windows mobile with a 3rd party OS.

"Just use open source apps and recompile them for your phone."
That is not very easy and most apps are closed source. Also, that is one of the selling points. Most people with PDAs don't want to learn how to recompile applications. They want the thing to work, they also don't have the technical experience.

The man thing is this, PDA owners have a PDA because they want the same functions as a laptop or computer but, don't wish to carry around everything.

Blackberry and Windows Mobile is the closest thing you will come to this. They have pocket versions of Word, Excel, PP etc that allow either viewing, markup or full editing. They are both credible operating systems, so there is no need for emulation of anything - just run it native, as Moogy said. NO, not all smartphones have stylus, actually most don't anymore with the demise of handwriting recognition. Second, most PDAs and smartphones have little ram and flash. adding an SD card doesn't expand the executable space - that is slow serially accessed memory (compared to OS ram) and almost ALL units do not allow it to be used as EIP (execute in place) - it is loaded into RAM, so you must have enough RAM for the OS AND the app. Most units have only 64 MB ram. Even the most advanced unit which is Apple's iPhone has only 256MB ram, 8GB flash of which half a gig is blown on a severely cut down OS X (similar to how Windows Mobile compares to Xp/Vista).
You CAN understand that you cannot run a 1280x1024 screen OS like XP or Vista requiring gigs of disk and a gig of ram on a PDA/smartphone with 64 megs of ram and flash combined? If the standard resolution on these devices increases beyond QVGA (320x200), you might have a chance at running not only your full apps, but full speed access to your data, through something like a pocket Winterm or Citrix, but then the server is doing all the work. You'd need faster wireless networks than we have generally available now.

DOSBox runs under windows mobile and reputedly will run windows 3.1. I don't think that technically what you propose is anything new. Such emulators are extremely slow however. Why not just write applications for Windows Mobile or indeed j2me which will run on nearly every device currently available.

"They are both credible operating systems, so there is no need for emulation of anything - just run it native, as Moogy said."
They can NOT run all of the same programs native.

"not all smartphones have stylus, actually most don't anymore with the demise of handwriting recognition."
Never said all, but I will backup that smart phones and pda's have a stylus. The ones that do not include one are typically lower end models. The newer models still support both touch screen and keyboard.

The amount of built in ram is plenty to run a majority of programs. When I was talking about SD card I was talking about storage memory.

This would be built specifically for mobile, it still would not support as full of an environment as a regular computer. But, would greatly expand it.

When I said emulator I did not intend it to to mean run some other OS like windows 3.11 or anything like that. This would be made directly for mobile.

I didn't understand. "This would be made directly for mobile"? Well, that's Symbian, Windows Mobile, etc. "Anyways, this will be most likely a program that will run along side with the OS or possibly replace the OS. You can replace windows mobile with a 3rd party OS." That means you want to build an OS for mobiles more powerful than Windows Mobile. That's Acceptable, if you are gonna compete with likes of Microsoft. But, is that a "new idea"???

Not exactly compete more like expand the capabilities.

I know this will sound like a really dumb question but what happens when you're in the middle of an application and the phone rings?

I suppose that physically you would be using earphones and a mike so you wouldn't actually have the phone up to your ear and mouth, and the phone/computer would be multi-tasking so your phone call wouldn't interrupt your program - is that the gist of it?

What kind of programs would your target customer want to run on his or her phone?

1) Cell phone hardware is way underpowered to run a full on desktop app. The whole app would need to be redesigned. Most applications wont fit in the ram of a phone let alone the emulator as well.
2) even if it was likely(which it isn't, the hardware is good but not that good!) Desktop applications are designed for big screens. You would be unlikely to get even a menu for ms word to fit on a cell phone/pda screen.
3) To give you an idea of the scope of this checkout ReactOS
http://www.reactos.org/en/index.html.
This has been running since 1998 and they still are not even past alpha, and these are hardcore OS programming geeks. This is only for PC, yet they are still in alpha. You hope to do this with cell phones?

I know that many Desktop apps and programs will run on the specs provided. I am not saying this are going to be heavily intensive programs or games like Doom3 or anything.

Well, I know I have seen a few completely different OS systems for mobiles. I have one on my Casio PDA. They don't do what I am talking about in this idea. ReactOS seems closest to this idea. But, that is not exactly made for mobiles.

Mobile system specifications vary incredibly they are far from standardized.
And the cpu's and ram on mobile devices are designed to be low power consumption. They may say 300mhz-700mhz but its nothing like a comparable to even a Intel Pentium 3 700mhz of old. Once you write the translation(emulation layer) it would run like molasses.
Also even if they did have enough guts it still does not address the fact the user interface of a desktop application is completely unsuited for a mobile.

Many of them are very standardized, of course not all would be able to run. But, there is a great deal of them now that can do it easy.

You would need to convert some things. But, this can be accomplished. I have even seen some PS1 mods going around. A ton of people though that could never be done. For all kinds of reasons. But, you know what it was completed and it actually worked.

This is an idea to just add a bit more of support for programs. It is not going to be the full thing and it is never going to run everything exactly like a PC.

I just going to write a longer post, but you just said, ".. it is never going to run everything exactly like a PC"

Which is exactly why there are mobile device specific operating systems and applications.

On my MUST read list is this article on the develpment of the Psion 5 pocket computer: http://www.theregist...06/26/psion_special/

great background if you are thinking of this sort of project.

If you really want to "run" a PC app on your phone or PDA, you can use it to access a remote desktop, easier and cheaper now with 3G and WiFi on Smartphones.

I have a better idea. Why not just put a phone in laptop computers? I can see people walking around with laptops pressed to their ears. The screen real estate on PDAs simply isn't sufficient for most desktop apps. What do PDAs really need to do that they don't do now? If you can think of something, then get the appropriate SDK and develop it.

thanks for letting me know

Nice Idea but i'm still in love on the promising feature of iPhone...

If aint broke? then let the service center sweat on it...

If you have ever used a PDA with the default operating system you too would see why it is broke. If you have never tried other operating systems for your PDA I encourage you to try a few it makes a wold of difference.

HAVE YOU EVER HEARD OF UMPC.... ULTRA MOBILE PERSONAL COMPUTER!

Sorry but Gates is way ahead of you there....

see http://www.microsoft...ly/umpc/default.mspx

What is the market for this?

I am getting the feeling that people are all over the map. Some say, technology won't work / is too complex to develop.

Others say, if you need a mid-range computer, get a mid-range (or whatever) computer.

And others say, there are devices doing this already.

All of this leads me to say, what is it you're selling and who will buy it, and why will they buy it? You are hinting that there are apps suited to phones but not written for phones. What is the reason that they are not presently written for phones? I am tempted to say, "Because customers prefer the existing solutions". I'm waiting for some examples and a convincing argument that there is a need for what you propose.

Thanks!

what is the great need to have this one i guess is the question?

Sorry, but JavaME is a very mature, featured environment for writing generic apps on cell phones. Trying to emulate a bigger environment than that doesn't seem feasible.

Also, another approach... a linux based cellphone could offer ability to run tons of open source apps...
http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page
...of course that is counting on people buying a new cellphone. But cellphones are becoming disposable, and when a cellphone finally arrives that gives me all the power I need, I'll run out and buy it. But i DON'T anticipate someone write an emulation package for a current cellphone which will give me all the capability I want.

Wow this idea has a lot of votes. Over 150!

WOW!!!