Ideas

There are wiki's and sites who do similar things. Check them out first.
I like the idea.
Tommy

Without an effective "CAE" (computer aided education) piece which lets a user and an outside organization (AKA the school) test their own level of knowledge, even a well written wiki is just a textbook. Most students need more.

So the difference between the wiki sites, etc. and what is being proposed is that a WIKI only has the library of information, not the course formation and accreditation piece, and the student admin piece. The goal is to build all of these as part of a "community administered" organization.

Sounds like bit like MIT open course.

yup..this has been done wordwide i guesss. ..a year ago I almost pursued an online Graduate school in our State U.... this is cousin to distance learning wayway back!

oops...sorry for not reading well...if you mean free, think again? who will maintain the operation, standards and integrity it will protect...
in education if you vision it to be free still need a big responsibility...except if you intend to have a diploma mill for everyone.

check this one for more enlightenment:

http://www.dmoz.org/...ation/Diploma_Mills/

But if you insist check this similar advocacy:

http://www.cas.sc.ed...deflem/education.htm

this website was successfully devoted to the fight against commercial lecture notes companies..

Keep the Dream alive comrade!

That's the difficult part -- not making it a diploma mill. Because the goal IS to facilitate as many diplomas as possible, but that's were accreditation is key -- because the major accreditation agencies exist primarily to make sure that any purported educational resource is properly investigated, authorized, etc.

The difference between what I am proposing and the MIT courses is that unless things have changed radically in the last few weeks, you can take an Open MIT course -- but getting credit for it still costs major bucks, and can't even be used at MIT.

And I am not proposing something totally "free" -- there is a cost to maintaining web servers, sites, checking and updating content in the courses, examination proctors, etc.

What I am proposing is that those things don't have to cost hundred of dollars per credit hour.

Here is the link to the MIT site for those who are interested.

http://ocw.mit.edu/index.html

BTW, credit costs money because universities have a "reputation" to maintain. They take in big bucks, but they also spend big bucks to make sure their programs are accredited by such institutions as ABET and CHEA.

You are fighting an uphill battle. If you want accreditation like universities, you will pay those same fees. Community college and State schools in California, where I live, are only a reasonable price because they are heavily subsidized by the state government.

And when I say an uphill battle, if you are not going "with the flow" or "one of the boys" you might just be labeled an degree mill, as per this link at CHEA's website:

http://www.chea.org/...reemills/default.htm

Here is the criteria the site lists for a "degree mill"
* Can degrees be purchased?
* Is there a claim of accreditation when there is no evidence of this status?
* Is there a claim of accreditation from a questionable accrediting organization?
* Does the operation lack state or federal licensure or authority to operate?
* Is little if any attendance required of students, either online or in class?
* Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?
* Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree?
* Are degrees available based solely on experience or resume review?
* Are there few requirements for graduation?
* Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus or business location or address and rely, e.g., only on a post office box?
* Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications?
* Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities?
* Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?

So my main message is that you are fighting an entrenched enemy.

Universities have been in the business of educating for a long time (yes it is a business, sorry they don't care that much about you, especially if you don't pay your tuition...) Not only have they been around for a while, they have also helped build institutional and governmental policies to keep their bottom line secure and growing.

Best of luck to you.

Good points, ccozad. Responding one at a time, using my ideas as a basic response which keeps this from being a degree mill:

* Can degrees be purchased? No.

The idea here is that the student is paying to register the claim that they have passed the approved class, as proctored by an approved organization/quailfied proctor. No different than how current and past home study courses from accredited universities, etc. except at lower cost.

* Is there a claim of accreditation when there is no evidence of this status? and * Is there a claim of accreditation from a questionable accrediting organization?

If we pull this off correctly, no. The "online college" would have to be accredited by the same organizations, thus forcing them to recognize the credits earned as valid.

* Does the operation lack state or federal licensure or authority to operate?

I wouldn't do this without an appropriate oversight authority. Question is where the authority has to come from in order to be valid. For example, I can go to school in any state but the accreditation from a Nat'l organization makes that course or degree nationally recognizable.

* Is little if any attendance required of students, either online or in class?

I don't know how much "attendance" matters if a person is challenging a course at a current university. This concept is similar, i.e. the person's attendance is proven by their passing the course.

* Are few assignments required for students to earn credits?

I really gotta think about this one. I have earned a lot of college credits (Advanced Placement exams, work experience that has made me a better programmer than what is taught in schools, etc.) without doing assignments.

* Is a very short period of time required to earn a degree?

I wouldn't think this would be that much shorter -- just cheaper

* Are degrees available based solely on experience or resume review?

Nope, credits towards degrees would be earned by proving the applicable knowledge retention over time.

* Are there few requirements for graduation?

Should be nearly the same as a regular institution.

* Does the operation fail to provide any information about a campus or business location or address and rely, e.g., only on a post office box?

In order to distribute courseware CD-ROMS, there will have to be a centralized distribution point and presumably a small campus would grow up around that point, which is also where the program would get its state or federal licensure.

* Does the operation fail to provide a list of its faculty and their qualifications?

Could adjunct faculty be done on a course by course basis? Not sure...

* Does the operation have a name similar to other well-known colleges and universities?

No it wouldn't.

* Does the operation make claims in its publications for which there is no evidence?

Hell no. Once there are publications I would only use provable statistics. For example, if we created a College Algebra course that was proven to be 90% successful if compared to other courses on a pass/fail/grade level, that would be published.

"That's the difficult part -- not making it a diploma mill"

check your semantics...diploma mill pertains to producing graduates not suitable on the degree earned and simply (sort of) attended the degree. This will lead to mass producing of sub par of graduates, which is an educators' nightmare and would likely lead to academe crisis, decadence, demoralization and impending national intelligence's decay if not downfall of civilized society. Further education is still a privilege than a right for an individual and as option for humanity to pursue.

I disagree that further education is a privilege -- I believe that it is a necessity. However, online or even DVD courses aren't the sole answer.

For example, a nursing program that didn't require an extensive OJT/internship program would be worth absolutely nothing -- but if the remainder of the purely intellectual classes such as college algebra don't have to consume a nursing school's faculty resources (AKA expense).

The part of the education I am intending to approach is the "book learning" type of stuff where what you know and can prove by examination is accreditable at a low cost.

i like ur idea ...but dont really agree with keepin it free.! the standard of education wil be questioned

a also am not a big fan of online education!

I like the idea of free online education, however I am not that big on the certification aspect of it. Knowledge is great, but certifying someone online has little to no meaning as there is no validation of whom is actually sitting at the computer.

OK, so you want to be credited like other regular online schools (to earn a real diploma). But, operate on the non-profit side of things. Only including actual costs.

That seems like it has good intentions. I will change my vote on this positively. With the expectation that you will research the actual costs and fees and present them.

Open your local newspaper and you'll find plenty of people offering courses on everything ranging from guitar and piano lessons to the art of spiritual healing. Being that everyone is caught up on eLearning, we've seem to forgotten the vast amount of educational resources which exist around us.

I love the name Open Course! I think it would be wonderful to develop a website where people could sign up for classes in their community. Allow individual people along with major universities to supply their course information, and provide social networking tools to help the process.

There's certainly a good idea in there somewhere!

a very real and moving inspiration!

christopherritter might be onto something... to change the model a little and rely on the wisdom around us.

You basically want to make learning books freely/cheaply available added with online tutors?

Am I seeing this wrong?

A big part of getting an education is interaction and discussion with peers. In an online environment this can be done very effectively. There are many open source LMS (Learning Management Systems) out there (Moodle, Ilyad, Sakai) that can certainly keep costs down. However, in order to ensure accreditation, you will need MAs and PhDs on staff or at least contracted to instruct. There are several reputable Universities that currently offer mainly online courses such as Royal Roads and Athabaska (at least in Canada). Check out there models and see where you can improve. Good luck.

I am almost positive this breaks copy right laws...

Many wonderful comments. Here's some brief feedback...

To coolnerd's comment:

Without identity verification this hole idea is moot.

to Davelfc and GodsLight's comments: No, the goal is to develop the full model (see my response to Kevin below for how an "open" university needs to function, and generate the courses without breaking copyright laws.

To Kevin's comment and bcforresters, in part:

The costs are as follows (but not with $$ attached yet)

1. Course generation with SCORM compliant tools.
2. Course quality review, i.e. knowledge "masters" to verify the quality of the course
3. Course distribution (either as bandwidth or DVD-ROM publication and distribution),
4. Course library storage & security
5. Proctoring administration, for fraud prevention
6. Student Administration

Of these:
#1,3, and #6 can be done with existing or improved open source tools
#4 and #6 require site security costs

Leaving the critical pieces where the "open" part of the community must provide the value. For example, a Ph.D who wants to affiliate in an engineering discipline would be the final fact arbiter for the courses under his/her knowledge domain, but not necessarily have to write the course personally. The "open" part of the proctoring process is that thee would have to be a fairly rigorous approval process for who can proctor an examination in a local area, but once approved, that would essentially open a "center" for education in a community.

Finally Christopher's comments are right on the money as are bcforresters on the social and interaction pieces. Which is where the idea of an "open" community based educational process must become real.

Athabasca: for Canadians $140 ish, for non-canadians $238ish per credit hour. Say $18K to $30,500 for a bachelor's degree

Royal Roads, more affordable: $5000 for some graduate certificates, $10K-15K+ for some Bachelor's degrees, $20K to $50K for masters programs...

Another one was at $90.20 tuition per credit plus some fees, call it $12K for a bachelor's

Excelsior (formerly New York Regents): about $895 enrollment, $8200 in course testing fees, $495 graduate fees... about $10 total.

In contrast...

Not that any degree is 100% doable online, but if it were, at $10 per credit hour = about $1280 if in semester credits for a bachelor's degree (4 years * 2 semesters * about 16 cr. per semester). Half of that for an associates degree, between $640-1280 more for a master's degree.

Even assuming that only 50% of the coursework could be done via our open university, and better registration/graduate fees, the savings are still immense.

Excelsior should have read $10K. Typed too quick darn it...

you have a great idea, but unfortonatelly it's an idealist one. wish you the best, this only could happen by the hands of students, parents, and maybe teachers, don't request help from university, community, or business people, haha, or publishers!! good luck really

I think its great...as an older university student (actually I'm an education and information addict really) I would love to just learn...learn learn learn... I think much can be done at low cost...its the accreditation that will be a little iffy.

Problems = book cost too much, tuition is ridiculously high, and fees, there are fees for everything...I can get sarcastic about fees...but I (and you) don't have the bandwidth.

So lets look at why these institutions cost so much...salaries, facilities, extracurricular activities, etc..

So qualified people could " donate time or give their time to instruct at a lower rate" to reduce salaries. Great opportunity to gain teaching experience.

Not much bricks and mortar here...no big fancy facilities...cost is down again.

Books...lets share, donate books...i did this while homeschooling my son...we spent a crapload in books...then gave 'em away or sold them at a tiny fraction (usually because the person insisted) ...ensure your institution has a forum to share resources, books etc..

Social aspect, get study groups going. Social doesn't imply in your face, it implies you communicate. Doesn't matter how. I'm lonesome with my university studies because my university is not in my home town...no way to facilitate communication with my classmates who are taking the same course. Would be great to collaborate/communicate with others of like minds...in that semester anyways.

maaan this CAN me done...but it will take time to build any level of credibility...AND you will never be an ivy league... but do you really care?

i'll give it a 3 stars but i think we can do better then sending dvd's through the mail. you can download pdf's of an intire book in a heartbeat and large volume disks could be outdone by free torrent transfers or other file sharing. it's a little bland to be honest

i agree with mashersmasher. there is a great idea brewing which could use a little refinement.

i keep thinking about Robert Anton Wilson's online university which teaches everything from Neurolinguistic Programming to Magical Chaos Theory.

these are courses you're not likely to find at a typical university. while accreditation can be a problem, it doesn't restrict you from placing the education on your resume.

which begs the question: what's wrong with an Open Bachelors? If you end up with knowledge and experience, that's all you really need to perform a certain duty.

I mostly agreed with not sending DVD's through the mail originally -- but consider the time required to download the amount of sheer information that can be stored on just *one* DVD. And that the cost to duplicate and send a DVD is somewhat less than $5.00, even less in higher quantities.

Then consider the merit of working on financing that would allow a core curriculum CD to be sent to literally every local library with Net or WIFI access points, along with the tools and requirements that would allow that same library to qualify as an accredited proctoring location.

This really will work -- if there is a community based method of developing the courses. Such as crowd-sourcing.