I have two daugters. I started teaching my oldest to program with turtle. Programming a pet would be way more fun for kids and would probably hold their attention for much longer than turtle. I love this idea!!!

This reminds me of a programmable robot that a friend of mine had when I was a child. We played with it for hours.

Great idea!

Lego has sets for small children (up to 4) and then sets for older children. You cannot mix them up. In the digital world, though, there may come out an authority that will design a standard for computer aided children creations, online (persistent) and offline (saved in a file), which will easily solve the "liability of the growing age" Lego has to suffer.

Pretty good idea! I might even contribute to it! What language would it be in? A newly designed one specifically for the site, or a BASIC language?

Thanks for the nice feedback. I am not a programmer (hence the lament for childhood programs like this one). I am approaching this idea more from a psychology perspective. Existing child-oriented software is based more around education/problem solving/construction (i.e., build your own game). By focusing on the creation of characters/virtual pets and establishing community, I hope that children develop simultaneously a sense of comfort with programming and some transferable social skills. PLus tamagotchi is something that doesnt look like dying anytime soon!!

This is a great idea, but I still hate being the one saying there's no money in it.

Aside from that, this is wonderful, especially if we are able to create a programming language that is easy for kids to learn.

Nice idea.

Someone asked how this makes money, here are a few thoughts:

- It doesn't need to make much if you could find a sponsor for hardware and hosting. Shouldn't be too hard because it would be good publicity.

- The usual ways: advertising and a premium version of the service.

- Pay to get the pet you've programmed embodied as a robot toy.

Also, here's something along the same lines:
http://kidsprogramminglanguage.com/

As a parent (which I am not yet), I would be willing to pay a single one-off price or cheap subscription to have my child be able to access the site and it features for a set amount of time. As fabian has suggested, this has potential to become an actual toy that children program. Kind of site that toy manufacturers would keep their eye on. Recently in Adelaide, they released a simple robot through the local paper (you had to buy the parts for $20). You could download the software to make it do different things. It was hugely popular and sold thousands. Kids were right into it (as were many adults).

Ok, for this to work, both the result (the pet) and the action itself should be entertaining. So the coding must be somewhat playful to. Serious games would be the field we are talking about probably. Maybe somebody from that field could leave a comment here. To lure them here, I'll post a link: http://www.seriousgames.org

To Cambrian: 'We have now options for full out super, awesome and such , but I'd also like more gradation like 'ok' or 'well.. perhaps' or something.

Spore is a game that will come out in 07 which is going to be awesome in the way it allows users to create their own content. However, it does not allow editing of logic. Maybe a hybrid between spore and this idea would be an good balance

The OpenSource element is a good way to encourage learning; but to encourage play, and perhaps turn a profit, it should operate along the lines of card-based RPG (role-playing games).

Users can program their pet and all aspects of developing that pet for free. But the tradeoff is they would have a limited environment, or Home, that the pet is in.

For a low fee, perhaps monthly, the pet can be given access to a wider world, and allowed to interact with other users' programmed pets, helping develop new skills, and allowing the kids a chance to play with and see other users' pets.

Higher tiered fees could allow more expanded access to other parts of this pet world, and perhaps even adventures that encourage puzzle-solving skills as a community. For instance, puzzles could be solved by correctly completing missing code from a program to get an object in the game to run again.

I'm a graphic designer and illustrator. I'd be interested in helping.

This is kinda cool, like Logo, but more compelling to me. It could make money by selling to schools you would think. Also, it could be a software package that parents could buy. Or if it were web-based, then some pet features could be free and others not. It would also be cool if different kids pets could interact with each other in an online world, by creating behavior rules such as is done in the software NetLogo.

This could make huge money through sponsorships while staying free.

Think of how many tech companies would want kids to associate with their brands at an early age? Other types of companies spend billions on this (McDonalds, Nike, Big Tobacco before they got sued).

I love it.

Hey everyone! - the ideas that are flowing with regards to this are really encouraging. I love the concept of being able to enter your pet into an online world and have it interact, and that different parts of the world are opened to you as your character develops. Julius, I like your concept of building this into more serious gaming. Art monkey makes a good point about being able to "purchase" a wider world. Willdriven has also pointed out how attractive the concept could be to corporate toy mans looking for early exposure.
Good stuff

PsychSplash I'm sry.
C'mon so you think you'll beat other games and Kids will enjoy coding your non existant programming language? I don't think so. It's too boring and of course they won't pay.

Code wars, Robo wars, that's on the NET being played for years, there are even leagues and it's on REAL programming languages.

Its old and dull idea, this kind of games are trying to be coded for a long time. Kids will just BORE to death.

Kids can't learn to code (for real) thru a game, get realistic it's not even funny for them. OF COURSE you can make a programming language so basic and easy for them to understand, but that's harsh and not real.

For real, I can't believe you all say "kool" "sweet" "..." THINK TWICE, you are not being responsible enough with your support.

IMHO it's everybody dream, educational games, kids from young start learning in kids ways. This has been chased for years, it's just boring don't you get it? It's utopic not possible, not real. Think twice before supporting. get mature

Btw, sry bout caps, they are only used to give emphasis to the sentences.

PsychSplash is trying to bump his idea posing 3 times himself saying his own idea is awesome, he should be deleted

xD

Hey Viceroid - for all the venom in your response, i still actually appreciate the feedback. There has to be an even mix of responses here so that ideas develop properly (or fall by the wayside if not appropriate). I do want to defend myself by stating that I did not give myself any thumbs up - I have just posted these response comments which had a 0 next to them when I did. Someone else has added thumbs to my posts. PLus, i dont think anyone is falling for it if i were - its got my name next to it!!!

Oh yeah - still think the idea is sweet

If I've understood the main idea I think the Squeak community has something very similar.

http://swiki.agro.uba.ar/small_land
http://www.squeak.org

Squeak is like a programming environment - with browseable worlds and toys like cars and pets around - for non programmers too, but you can use it over the web with Seaside, a web framework.

If I've understood the main idea I think the Squeak community has something very similar.

http://swiki.agro.uba.ar/small_land
http://www.squeak.org

Squeak is like a programming environment - with browseable worlds and toys like cars and pets around - for non programmers too, but you can use it over the web with Seaside, a web framework.

If I've understood the main idea I think the Squeak community has something very similar.

http://swiki.agro.uba.ar/small_land
http://www.squeak.org

Sounds like Terrarium for kiddies. Not sure how this can make money either, but I fully believe that kids CAN learn to program. Legos made a mint of Mindstorms.

PsychSplash, I'm just being sincere, not venom feeded at all, i'm not mean, i'm just writting what my brain wants to without any blocking.

I hope my comments help Cambrian House, and you, but primary Cambrian House.

Btw comments are barely new, we cant even edit them.

No problems Viceroid - glad to have you writing and commenting!

I only just today found "neopets" (somedays I really feel like I am living in a bubble) - The basic community concept is here without the "programming part" - is there someway we can feed virtual communities by letting users create their pets (rather than select from options list).

Plus, I am also interested in not only being able to build the look of the pet but also the behaviour. So you have "looks code" and "behaviour code".

I think that the author should not vote / comment / promote their ideas. It is kind of cheap.

This being said, I understand the need to reply some posts to clarify or explain further on some topic.

Maybe the Cambrian team shoud add another remark alternative: "Author's Comment"

Why not go the whole way and create an open source "Second Life for Children only" - as I just proposed. This would also answer how to make money on it.

Not for kids but for real programmers:

Here is a link to the .NET terrarium. I think its a great idea - but had no time until now to play with it:

http://www.windowsforms...eID=30&tabindex=8

Here's my two cents worth?

Adults thinking like adults invented most of the modern toys like Gameboy and PSP and similar gaming systems, which are wildly popular. Why do kids like them?

Instead of just harumphing, and selling kids short, why not do some market research?

Ask the kids! Find out what they like about this idea --if anything -- and whether they think it would be fun?

While you are at it, throw in some awards and prizes for kids with the best virtual pets. Set up competitions.

Most important, guarantee that the "playground" will be supervised by humans for inappropriate language and innuendo. I think parents would willingly pay for a protected environment where their kids can go and have fun without fear of being preyed on by Internet perverts.

This completely reminds me of programming a turtle in school to draw pictures. It's just trying to take it to the next level. Unfortunately, large amounts of money isn't usually made by selling to schools. Leapfrog attests to that.

I seem to have read that Second Life has a place for teens.

Honestly, this idea reminds me of Gwabs and even more similarities to my variation called Gwabs Gone Dancing:
http://www.cambrianh...er/ideas-id/FU8pBCe/

as I brace myself for the expected onslaught of tomatoes which all will want to throw at me any minute now....

Can we turn back the clock to a day when a kid played outside and read for quiet enjoyment?

I find the idea of baby programmers sad and scary b/c I'm afraid of the effect on child development - you are only a kid for a short time. Why spend it in front of a machine?

There is more beauty and complexity in nature than a computer can ever offer.

And I fear there is something frightening happening to the neural pathways of children who are computerized too early. Plus the sedentary nature of computer "play" only increases the chances of childhood obesity.

PsychSplash, this is your professional area, what do you think? You proposed the idea, but can you comment on my fears? Think of learning styles, neural development, creativity, etc. ... whatever might be relevant. Convince me this is NOT bad for kids.

Thx.

(ducking behind a hedge now)

Hi Jill

NO need to hide on the basis of your comments. They are valid and deserve attention! :)

I cannot say I am versed on the literature regarding neural development and "being computerized". what I do know about neural development, concerns primarily quality relationships between caregiver and child. It is generally from this framework that I come up with my kid-focused ideas, as I believe computers provide awesome opportunities for collaboration between parents and children. Start this process young and you positively impact neural development.

Creativity stems from seeing unique relationships between elements. A big part of that process is understanding the elements. To me, computer programming is a great example of understanding and combining core elements to create something "bigger than its parts"

I agree that obesity and physical activity rates are probably a direct result of alternative media (TV, video games). I also agree that physical coordination does not emerge in front of a computer. Spatial intelligence and kinesthetic intelligence all require interaction with the physical world. I am not sure at which point you though "programming for kids" was meant to overtake their lives!! I am not proposing an idea which fosters physical coordination. I am proposing an idea which fosters collaboration and understanding of technology.

The theory behind many of my ideas regarding kids is actually more complex than I explain in the 1000 word limit. I fundamentally believe that to get through to kids, to alter "their neural pathways", to change their beliefs, to foster creativity (whatever you want to call it), you need to speak through the channels that are most effective. The two most effective channels in my mind are 1) the parents, 2) the media.

You develop a child-friendly, interactive service that is cool, you draw the attention of both the child and the parent. The child interacts because it is fun. Once you have a child's attention you can address all sorts of issues. There is no reason why the character they build in "programming for kids" is not active and enjoys outside games - the character may suggest to kids ideas for games they can do outside, nice things they can do for their parents etc. Kids can run around outside to think about the different types of movement they would like to program into their character.

Once you have the parent's attention, you have drawn them slightly into their child's world as well as provided a safer internet environment for their child to exist. The greater the connection you can foster between teh child and the parent, the more positive the outcomes. Parents can interact with kids easily by both of them sitting down in the evening (outside of usual play time) and working on the character together. This is a collaborative program and I have every intention of making it so. Good quality messages and advice to parents can be integrated with programs like this. I have every intention (should this idea get off the ground) to be involved at a core level ensuring the program is a good quality psychological experience for both parents and children - the programming aspect is up to those who know how to do it!!

I really appreciate your comments Jill. They show someone who thinks through the logistics and potential effects of an action, a rather rare trait at times. I do not know if I have said anything that re-assures you but "programming for kdis" is there to create better kids, not fatter ones. I would be the first person (when I am a parent) to drag my kids off the computer and get their fat arses outside to ride a bike. But later at night, when I want to be with them and teach them stuff - a cool tool like "programming for kids" would be an excellent addition.

Great answer. I guess the time zone thing has worked in our favour today, b/c I had only just posted the questions.

Bottom line is, this is a much stronger idea if it is supported by an underlying concern for and knowledge of child development - which I am confident is within the capacity of this community, starting with you.

I like what you said, thanks for explaining it. Now that you've set it out, I can see that a built-in awareness and concern for the child's well-being would potentially be a very strong selling feature of this product.

I'm thinin' that this could be a physical toy that connects to your pc (usb) to download updates/info and for its programs to go on!

I like your thinking gigitrix - that is certainly a future possibility