Ideas

I was looking to do something similar a couple of years ago but came across a huge amount of patents specifically covering location based / GPS-aided content delivery. There was also one specifically targeted to applications in the tourism industry. As the authors intended, I was put off by the thought that one of these patent owners could come out of the woodwork if the business took off.

If you have searched through them all and think you have the required variation to stake your own claim, then I am behind this idea 100% as I think location based services are so useful and am sick of seeing most current offerings being built upon the usual suspetcs - google, microsoft etc (i.e. those that can afford the legal fees)...

A couple of smaller US companies do have GPS based tourist guides and Lonely Planet recently came out with a GPS edition so there is clearly a market there but I would be interested to see if they're paying licensing costs to any patent holders or not.

I could see navigation manufacturers providing this with their Navigation hardware and software as an extra add-on. TomTom navigation systems for example has all sorts of add-ons which you can buy. So yes i think there's a market. Though i think your business would indeed need to be bought by a big navigation system manufacturer to have some protection regarding the above mentioned patents.

The idea is to simply provide audio content for use on a GPS device, or mp3 player, or whatever; a sort of audible Wikipedia that can be listened to on location.

As long as contributors don't plagiarize content, I don't imagine there could be a problem.

What do you think?

Jay - finally an idea that should work. Having just returned from vacation, I was also thinking if I could get information on the sights and sounds wherever I was. Based on MP3 files might be the way to start. Select from a website. Charge a nominal fee to download? Pay a nominal fee if you add content and people buy it? mnaybe start with downloads of Lonely Planet, Michelin, Fodor's, etc. Provide the coordinates if you wish. Tying the two together at first might simply be too much to ask for. Get some traction first.

You get a vote from me.

I think you should focus on the open-source aspects of your idea, as clearly there are other people with similar ideas out there based on a quick google search

http://www.themindfa...GPS_MP3/gps_mp3.html

If you're opening up the platform for people to develop against maybe that is your key differentiator. I'd definitely suggest the Blackberry GPS model and Windows mobile 5.0 Smartphones as a good starting point.

Not a bad idea, I would be curious how to port it to multiple devices.

i think its already there! saw somethin similar on tv!

Taking this concept to the next level is Vince Vernor in "Rainbows End". Here physical objects had RF tags attached to them that were readable by wearable hardware. As you came within range, information about that object would pop up and be displayed. The depth of the data could be varied depending upon your interest.

Cool idea. I think there are museums that have something like this but they provide content on exhibits according to distance to Wifi access points.

Jay,

I have two friends in this business, and would be interested in this idea myself.

If you raise some start up funds, and a team and get the project started. I would seriously consider investing myself.

I know the market space well, and am grateful that there is some competition out there.
This would be a fun project with serious legs.

Cheers
Capt

I know some GPS systems all ready point out key locations. But, this idea seems like it takes it one more step.

yup great idea but another where the battle has only just begun. The hardest part will be getting it to market

I stumbled across a few regional podcasts some time ago while researching local communities on the Internet. There's certainly an interest but you're going to have to make it simple enough for the user who is still living in the 90's version of the 'net.

This is a great idea. Have you explored the companies that currently exist that are doing this? Here are a few:
http://www.tourcaster.com/
http://www.touritec.com
http://www.cityshownyc.com/
http://www.google.ca...038;q=gps+audio+tour

Here's one more:
http://www.nodeexplore.com/

Question 1) How to make money?
Question 2) How to guarantee quality, if people do it for free and fun. Quality concern both content and professional voices?

http://www.podguides.net tried this with big media echo years ago, everbody thought it's nice, but it seems nobody really submitted reasonable audio tours.

And here are a handful more of competitors.
http://www.iaudioguide.com (50 cites, partly free, partly paid, up to four languages)
http://www.pocketvox.com (20 cities, 3 languages)
http://www.mp3travel.com (texts close to wikipedia entries read out by comutervoice)
http://www.cityzeum.com (all kind of user generated content elements).

I guess your current concept of linking to (copyrighted) guides by other producers and earn an affiliate income is more likely to be a success!

As flix already mentioned, what is the intended revenue stream. Providing always available streaming content based on current location is something I would use; though I am not sure I would pay for such a service. Would add revenue be enough? What alternatives to make money are you thinking?

Where would the money come from?

You also run the risk of the 'Wikipedia-effect' If anybody can edit all the content than the risk of clowns ruining potentially good audio feeds is quite high I would have thought.

This is great, its a simple idea that we can actually get going with CH.

Yes there is a few others out there but you just have to find a competitive advantage.

At the risk of taking a simple idea and getting complex...Could you build a satellite enabled comms GPS tracker..That way you can download snipets..I would also allow free uploads/attributed to the originator but have an editing force that would clear out the improper content..

You sell the devices and a small fee for service (as use)..Say get a credit card for user and the user can "activate the device" to receive downloads with the GPS system..So they pay a few cents per snipet..Charge at the end of each day a total of all snipets reviewed...Or a week if you want...

Have an on-line web site that allows a user to check billing, replay snipets or even just hear all snipets, pre-load snipets (say I am going to the Amazon and flying into Rio, get all snipets of Rio and the path into the Amazon preloaded onto my device)..

Maybe even make the hard drive large enough to store music/shows the user can enjoy while travelling to/from the destination.

A thought..
Jim

A number of people have pointed out that there are already some sites offering audio tours. These are usually in the form of Mp3 files that can be purchased and downloaded.

My idea is a bit different in that OGGtour content is completely open for remixing and modifying. This is done from within OGGtours.com where users can add audio or text comments to the tour directly from their computers, not too different from a blog post...a sort of 'blog tour' I guess. (let me go register blogtours.com). OK. Got it.

Now, after enough content has been generated for a tour, the content would then saved in .mp3, .ogg, and .acc formats and uploaded to the OGGtours box.net storage box. Anybody can then transfer the tour to their own box.net account and either download the tour to their computer, or stream it to their blackberries/iPhones as they walk the tour route. Revenue comes from the $12 that Box.net gives for every referral.

Everybody seems to win! (or at least nobody loses anything). And most interesting to me is the fact that the whole project can operate from within Cambrian House.

I know some newer mp3 mash-up models are out there. Specifically, I ran across a website that posts different inspirations for songs, which the musicians record and upload to the site. The community has access to the songs and are able to rate each submission.

This leads me to believe that one part of the site's success will be in the branding. Most of the sites mentioned earlier have a distinctive "pre-Web 2.0" look-and-feel. A good approach might be to create a "Web 2.2" design with multiple horizontal sections.

The first step towards "Web 2.2" would require deciding the flavor of OGGtours. Is it earth tones and watery explorations, or patchwork and bookish (like CW.com)? Do people feel like they're on an expedition or is this an intellectual pursuit for the modern traveler?

Additionally, what is OGGtour's hook? Should the mp3 mash-up site I mentioned previously simply have allowed musicians to upload music, I'm sure the site wouldn't have caught anyone's attention.

Another example would be to imagine all those people complaining about the "Momma So Fat" search bar turning CH.com into the digg.com "Web 2.0" ultra-white design. The Cambrian hook feels like sitting around with your buddies surrounded by cool posters and crazy artwork to inspire original ideas.

Simply saying you can upload tour audio might lead to the same lackluster effect that a white-washed CH.com would achieve.

This is a great idea. I look forward to taking my Nokia N95 on holiday, plugging OGGTours.com (or something) on the browser and streaming an mp3 (or realaudio file as mp3 streaming doesn't work on Symbian S60 3rd edition). It'll work. Let's build it.

What a great idea - hope it takes off for you.

Might want to reconsider the name as well, being that a desperately small percentage of your target audience will understand what an OGG is.

crappy idea

Christopher:

I agree. The look and feel of a website is crucial. Unfortunately, I am not a coder or a designer. Perhaps there is someone (fingers crossed) around CH that is? Anyone?

The name is also important. I picked OGGtours because it does have that sense (for those that know what an .ogg is) of being open source and royalty free. But OGG can also become an acronym for Open GPS Guides or Open Guides to the Globe or Open Geo Guides etc. But I am open to suggestions, and adjustments...

Anathema and Tilly:

Thanks for the encouragement. I could use some help launching the business, so come along! Anathema's experience with Symbian phones is absolutely invaluable.

This idea wouldn't take much to get going. With a little help from the community, we can do it all right here in Cambrian House!

Great idea jay... I am with ya

For a conceptual look at how this business will be run, take a look at the functioning prototype site put together by the founder, CH member Jay, @ http://www.oggtours.com

A bunch of keen CH'ers have already signed up to this great business. Drop by the business forum to contribute to the active discussions and evolve this great idea into a successful business.

If you're sold, as I am, put your hand up to join the business as we need your help! There is a business plan template in the wiki and we have just commenced seeking contributors / collaborators.

Thank you.

Jay- this is actually one of the more viable ideas I've seen on CH- nice. couple things: I agree w/ siddy that you probably want to open it as much as possible and change the axis of competition if there are other commercial entities out there trying to do the same. What's the motivation of the people contributing audio tours? is it the same as open source projects... i guess i can buy that. The good news with that model is if people are contributing their tour audio for free it could produce a mound of very genuine, wikipedia-like content which would be valuable. Your description of an "audible wikipedia that can be listened to on-location" is the perfect pitch- you should lead with that instead of burying it 3 comments down...

look at potentially piggy-backing an existing open source project around geotagging that already has the technical details figured out and a substantial user base behind it. Wigle.net is an example but it's focused around wifi hotspots. Could flickr geotagging somehow be worked in?

This has promise. good luck

sean

Just a quick comment regarding the links to other websites doing similar things:

The Mind Factory

This company specializes in hardware. I first contacted them about two years ago regarding their GPS Mp3 Player. At that time they promised to send me a working prototype, but almost two years later they still have not developed one. When (or if) they ever do it would work great for OGGtours.

http://www.tourcaster.com
http://www.touritec.com
http://www.cityshownyc.com
(and dozens of others)

These companies, like most audio tour websites, create and offer their own audio tours. Once created these tours are not updated and cannot be edited or added to by other contributors. The tours are also sold for a hefty price. The difference between OGGtours and these websites is similar to the difference between Encyclopedia Brittanica and Wikipedia. OGGtours are open and editable and free!

In short, no existing website offers open content audio tours. OGGtours is undoubtedly the first and only to attempt this.

Jay! Sorry man, I missed your commercial as fresh video content for this weeks IW video. I knew about it but was just in a rush and forgot to incorporate it. Doh. Nice commerical. Burning Man is neat (I've only gone in 2001), hope you had a great time.

Jay - nice work on the commercial. I think it's simple, to the point and cool.

Given it's a relatively new market segment (mobile tour guides) it is not easy to pinpoint all of the favourable target demographics but the styling you've applied to the ad would make sense to a wide audience I think.

Indeed there are numerous target groups to reach through an OGGtour. I just recieved an email from an architect in New York who is interested in working with his colleagues to make 'architecture tours' of Manhattan. There are also a number of ways to distribute OGGtour content. The OGGtours team has been discussing this in our business forum, and so far we have come up with:

* Mp3 players
* Mobile phone browsers
* Texting for tours (as Blue mentioned in the CH video blog)
* Blue tooth broadcasting or 'bluecasting' from vendors on location
* Phone numbers to call to access tours
* Publishing printed guidebooks that can be sold (with mini CD) on location
* GPS platforms such as the Garmin tourguide
* GPS-Guided taxi tours, bus tours, or tuk tuk tours as done with the Bangkok OGGtour

This is just a start, and as technology pushes forward new opportunities will come around.

http://www.archive.o.../OGGtours.OldBangkok
...is that what you are referring to by "GPS-Guided taxi tours, bus tours, or tuk tuk tours as done with the Bangkok OGGtour"? It has nothing to do with GPS right and this is just a walking tour that is suitable for an MP3 player? (Might be some aspect to it I'm overlooking.)

Yeah, sorry to not explain that clearly. It will all make more sense at:

http://oggtours.com/...central-rattanakosin

There you can access:

(1) The GPS version (requires a mobile device running the free mediascape app)
(2) A standard version in Mp3 format
(3) A premium version with professional editing and no advertisements

From the above link you can also add comments to the Bangkok tour from your computer, or view the tour route in Google Maps and/or Google Earth.

The Thailand 'Tuk Tuk Tour' is functional, and should be ready for public enjoyment by December. So, if you find yourself in Bangkok over the holidays, let us take you for a GPS-guided spin in our hi-tech tuk tuk. The ultimate in geek tourism ;)

p.s. tuktuktours.com is coming online next week...stay tuned.

Congratulations Jay! Sail On!

Thanks for your nice comments on BlogMashing. I hope that one day OGGTours is linking the localized blog content with your localized blog tours. Could be an interesting collaboration at some point.

Honestly, I'm a little overwhelmed by all that could be done with this idea. I think there are so many options that people can easily get confused with what they should and could do. Maybe that's because we all want to use your application a different way.

Might I also suggest that you don't create walking tours. At least not the method you are doing it now. It seems to me that the audio file should relate to one specific location. Then, I should be able to pick from a list of locations and be given all of those audio files. Of course you could then produce me a route map for all of those locations as long as you've geocoded the various locations. Essentially then I design my own walking tour. Possibly even using a Google Mashup of the various locations so I can see how far it is. It would take some work, but you could even tell the user how far it was between two locations.

I might be going into too much detail, but I think that this method lets people choose the type of locations that interest them and they could even do a driving tour where they might drive around Las Vegas and check out each of the hotels and find out which one has which thing. Or even locations along a trip they are taking.

Of course, for those people who don't want to choose each item individually you can have pre-designed tours that users have created for other people. For that matter, I could even be so detail as create a walking tour for the University I work at. Next time a candidate comes to visit I can just give them headphones and drive around. That will save me some breathe.

Ok, so as I discuss this the problem is still deciding a scope of what you want to accomplish with this idea.

A few more thoughts came to mind.

How are you planning to motivate users to do these tours? Have you considered doing an iStockPhoto model where they get paid when their content makes money? This will drive people to not only create good content, but would also encourage them to market the site and their audio tours. I'm not sure how the open source license would be affected by this idea.

I also think that the revenue model definitely needs to be refined. Wikipedia has shown the difficulty in a free for all site that becomes popular and you'll be pushing audio files and not just text like Wikipedia.

The freebox.net affiliate payment is interesting, but the concept of me signing up for a monthly freebox.net charge for a service that I would use sporadically doesn't seem the right match.

Is advertising enough when your content is almost all in audio files which can't currently be targeted that well?

As I think about all the options, it goes back to my last comment about defining where you're going to go with the idea. If you go all web based, then you'll have to define one revenue model. If you go all GPS and phone based, then the revenue model would be very different. If you do both, then...you get the point.

One final point, but I'm not sure that most people are technical enough to mix, remix and add audio files. I'm a pretty technical person and it intimidates me. You'll need a method to upload audio as simple as YouTube is to upload video if you want the majority of internet users to do it.

Of course if you want quantity and quality, then maybe the iStockPhoto model would be the best for this idea since it will encourage people to figure out the technology and hopefully create great content.

I hope some of these comments help. I look forward to seeing this project proceed.

I would love to say yes to you it sounds a great idea but I really do not think I am knowledgable enough. My husband says why do you not make me a Director ha ha

Haha... OK Tilly, I am officially naming you the OGGtour Director for
Hartlepool, GB!

I've read about the monkey that was hanged in Hartlepool during the Napoleonic Wars:

http://www.thisishar...hartlepoolmonkey.asp

That is a story that everybody who visits Hartlepool should hear. So to help get the Hartlepool OGGtour started I have made a post with an illustration of the hanging, and a cheeky little folk song. Anybody can comment on this tragedy at:

http://oggtours.com/...lepool-great-britain

CH staff ask questions!
http://youtube.com/watch?v=fKP8OAeWyPo

Hey I'll post these in text form shortly, but no need to wait on that if you want to respond now. Yes, I'm posting an identical YouTube link under both ideas. One video covers each matchup!

jay,

Q - Jay, won't it be crazy easy for someone to offer up all the content that your community will be working hard to create for free via their own spammy website? Sure, your creative commons licensed content protects you against some evil bastard stealing the files, and charging for copies. But it doesn't protect you against some evil bastard stealing the files, and offering their free download on his own spammy, Google AdWords laden site. How can you stop that?

Q - Jay, You've identified lots of
potential distribution mechanisms for getting the actual tours to
listeners, but the simplest mechanism would still be automation
location detection. Can't it be done simply without a GPS phone? Its gotta be possible!