Hi guys,
We are sad about mentioning this week's Weekly Ideawarz winnerin our blog. Want to know why? We'll tell you! Many new people find our website through our blog and we don't want their first impression of our amazing community to be on such a bad idea. Bad how? Bad in every sense of the word. It is impossible to crowdsource this idea. Moreover, it is not a viable business.

Seriously, what are you guys thinking? Are we to blame? Is this a case of bad parenting? I feel like one of those single mothers that is trying to improve the quality of life for her teenagers by working two jobs, then the teenagers get involved with the wrong crowd anyway.

Gord and I will take full responsibility for this. We realize that there isn't very much to do on our site currently. In spite of this, there are several people that are managing to do amazing things on here. These are not the people that are voting up bad ideas in weekly Ideawarz.

Does the community need a lesson in crowdsourcing? The Wisdom of Crowds? We can recommend a few books for you if you are interested.

Here's some quick definitions for all of you to consider (taken from our friend, Jeff Howe's Crowdsoursing blog.

The White Paper Version: Crowdsourcing is the act of taking a job traditionally performed by a designated agent (usually an employee) and outsourcing it to an undefined, generally large group of people in the form of an open call.

The Soundbyte Version: The application of Open Source principles to fields outside of software.

Keep these definitions in mind. If these principles don't apply to your idea, do not enter it into Weekly Ideawarz. You are more than welcome to discuss any type of idea in our forums.

Hope this helps,
Sarah

Posted: October 26, 2007, 12:06 pm

The corresponding blog post further illustrates our frustrations, and my distrust of dairy products.

Posted: October 26, 2007, 12:38 pm

... and his love for all things Pokemon.

Posted: October 26, 2007, 12:53 pm

Well the level of ideas has gone down a lot, but the 'speed' of the site is not helping to participate.

About some results:
Since the order of the ideas is done by number of points you can have two effects:
one:
People stop voting after 5 ideas, and in this way vote just on the ideas which happen to be in the lead.
Two:
People think they have to vote high since the idea was considered good by others.

I would opt for
random order
no showing of points/average/number of votes.
postpone voting till you have at least 50 ideas.
my 2 cents.

Anyways Sarah: it's normal to have over a whole year good and bad ideas. Like (i think) you once said: bad ideas wont make it into a businuess and good ideas will, even if they don't make it.

Cheers
Tommy

Posted: October 26, 2007, 4:05 pm

postpone voting till you have at least 50 ideas

...in the IdeaWarz bucket eh? That might work although we'd probably have to delay finishing a competition until there were 50 ideas ready for the next tournament. Otherwise there'd be inactivity between tournaments.

Todd has pointed out our production box has error logs I need to review. It might be errors which are being caught but still the exception handling is slowing down the site.

I'm working on some TOC mods (not quite what you have in mind but close) and INAPPROPRIATE CONTENT buttons. I've got to get those live before I can review the error logs.

Posted: October 26, 2007, 4:16 pm

Gord and Blue,

Don't be too hard on yourselves or the crowd. The mission of IdeaWarz, as I understand it, was to promote some ideas that at first glance seem to be better than others. At best that is what people are giving the weekly contestants, a glance.

Of course the weekly contest could use some refinments (I'm personally for random order and against hiding scores).

The real thing that needs to be improved is what happens after the weekly winner. How do we refine ideas? How do we give them more critical reviews? How do we start building components that the crowd can activily start testing the next week? I don't think you need to reinvent the wheel here, just apply some best of breed practices from other community forges.

Lars

PS if you really want an example of crowds gone wrong, and the dangers of ignoring expert advice go read about China's steel production during the "great leap forward" on wikipedia.

Posted: October 26, 2007, 4:32 pm

On October 26, 2007, 4:05 pm vanhees said:


Two:
People think they have to vote high since the idea was considered good by others.
Cheers
Tommy

I completely agree with this statement. One false review from a heavy hitter on the site, even if the message is just unclear could make or break the voting stage. Ideally, if people submitted their ideas into the forums first I believe it may solve that issue.

Absquatulate!
-A

Posted: October 26, 2007, 6:30 pm

What about adding a, "I will leverage crowdsourcing by...." text field to the elevator pitch then;

1. If it is left blank, prevent the idea from entering the weekly tournament.

2. If it's lamo (i.e. clearly there is no relationship to crowdsourcing or it's just far-fetched), kick the idea out of the tournament.

3. Following on from a recent discussion about additional voting criteria, add "crowdsourcability" as a category.

4. Add the "CH commandments" to the top of the idea submission page to clarify what is relevant and what is not.

I agree entirely with Gord & Blue's blog rant this week. It's such a destructive abuse of the CH system to crank up your idea by ringing your faithful followers.

If there were more constructive comments left that actually articulated why an idea is such a good idea, then that would be a different story. The sheer volume of biased, one-liners adding no value to the discussion was downright deceptive and blindly arrogant.

All large crowds need some form of crowd control and in this case I feel that CH is justified in protecting the majority from the people out there that destroy the community spirit.

Posted: October 26, 2007, 10:01 pm

I'm. Trying to reply from my phone as I'm in the middle of nowhere for the weekend. I just wanted to say (right away, before I can reply on my laptop) you guys are awesome! I'm excited about your replies and Gord and I will have a lot to talk about next week! Will post more later!

Posted: October 26, 2007, 11:00 pm

This is what happens when people get in a rut. It's time to pull the rug out from underneath people and switch things up. Give folks the "joy", that spark when they first found CH or say when tournaments switched and started becoming weekly.

I would love to see a few projects, either sponsored by CH or by members of the community that are just pure crowd sourcing activities... the kind of projects where everyone can help out and feel like they contributed.

And here is something a little off the norm... don't even have the business model be the main focus. The focus will be to bring people together and when they come together, maybe, just maybe the chemistry will be right and ideas will materialize. That is the great thing about ideas, it is usually while you are anxiously engaged in something else that you come up with that "great idea"

So here is my two cents for something a little off the norm, but might get people together and get them thinking:

"The Smile Project" - A web site that is all about smiles. There is the smile gallery where you can view user submitted pictures of people smiling and laughing. Users can rate and categorize the types of smiles (smirks, grins, surprised, in love) There will also be a section to share stories about things that have made you smile.

The site will also have a screen saver / slide show program that you can download to get all sorts of smiles anytime you want. The smile project might also have a goal of say cataloging a billion different smiles. But the main goal is to spread a little joy and get people in that frame of mind they need to be to be creative.

Posted: October 27, 2007, 12:27 am

On October 26, 2007, 10:01 pm siddey said:


I agree entirely with Gord & Blue's blog rant this week. It's such a destructive abuse of CH system to crank up your idea by ringing your faithful followers.

.... I feel that CH is justified in protecting the majority from the people out there that destroy the community spirit.

While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize any idea here, yet it's much more saddening than people promote an agenda via their position and powerful tool.

I have heard the mob thing and its arguments(and lack of it) repeated in several forums, but it is in this particular that I heard/viewed today got me thinking. I detest such ranting posted in community blogpost instead of being intelligently discussed at least in the forum.

Joyce's idea was paraded in previous bucket..the few but encouraging comments made her to refine and asses her idea. She tried to comply by returning last week. I openly supported her since my another idea which is t3fold can compliment with her own Teewrapz. What mob rule then that this sour graping moguls are trying to picture out - the crowd originating on the same region-? Did they or this "mob" suddenly pop-out out of nowhere like mushroom and down vote other idea on the 11th hour (just what happened on several occasions here now) to call in names Gord/Blue thought is anti WOC? Showcasing those oneliner supporter was such a malicious cheap shot against the authors and those who believe in the idea! Thats tyranny of the few, and what Ive been seeing in this thread.

Sarah Blue's word is one of the most unintelligent remark I've ever read and heard in this community next to something she uttered against me not so long ago(what was that again?). Gord additional bashing didnt help much to give fair assesement too. Was the similar quoted idea so stupid to being in the business for over 30 years?.. did you guys never heard market taste and product life cycle? "Protecting the majority" ...this line seems an elitist remark! Gord/Blue for me made a duet that sounds like Shaq O'neal howling for not being voted as Top Center when Yao Ming had the vote coming all the way from China! What makes this two individuals and your own supporters better than those not so active members who supported Joyce (or whoever in the future)? Yeah its not another software revolutionary idea..but were Chesssphere and even other good ideas under CH and successful money making products in the market original? I wonder If someone reinvent paper clip and fastener and win in the Ideawarz coming from native North-am would get the same bashing. A weekly tournament with an average of 20 ideas now and about 50 early adopter voters surely will have this kind of pitfall. A probable minority winner from marginalized members-such a schism huh?!-

Oh, am sure, someone would give me a spit to opine again to pack my things and go somewhere...well why dont these guys do the same thing..go to the mountain and do another CH like a site with only their own pre-selected members strutting their great minds and infallible judgement.

What is collective intelligence if the powerful elite dominates and used their position to assert their maligned after thoughts? Why dont we simply be matured enough and forge an intelligent collaboration instead?

*btw sorry for my english grammer

Posted: October 27, 2007, 6:05 am

Sadly, the usually mild mannered Siddey has finally cracked.

rm -r /usr/local/saigon
rm -r /usr/local/joyce

*pulls pin, throws and runs*

Posted: October 27, 2007, 7:49 am

Hey everyone to posted since my reply to Vanhees (LarsBell, GroundLoad, siddey, ccozad): Thanks for the feedback on this.

Specific questions about crowdsourceability (and rating it) is a great idea. On one hand it'll be sad to see some ideas not get submitted (in that some are good but not easy to crowdsource), but I'd rather sacrifice a few good ideas to help narrow the focus of our site, and make the criteria easier to articulate.

The Smile Project - Somehow I see a discussion framework on top of Flickr photos tagged with smile. (Flickr has great APIs.)

Saigon said...
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize any idea here it such more saddening people promote an agenda via their position and powerful tool.

Our agenda is having a fun site where people can collaborate on refining and implementing interesting ideas.

A future of TeeWrapz! caliber ideas is not what I'm going to spend my life facilitating. If Cambrian House has to choose between a future of inferior ideas and shutting the site down, we will shut the site down.

Showcasing those oneliner supporter was such a malicious cheap shot against the author and those who believe in the idea!

I was mean about it because I don't like being gamed. You have been members of the Cambrian House community long enough to know how pointless it is to recruit friends and family to vote up your idea.

Gord additional bashing didnt help much to give fair assesement too.Was the similar quoted idea so stupid to being in the business for over 30 years?.. did you guys never heard market taste and product life cycle?

I would be happy to see TeeWrapz! succeed. Go for it! Best of luck.

I wonder If someone reinvent paper clip and fastener and win in the Ideawarz coming from native North-am would get the same bashing.

Hard to say. Because a re-invented paper clip has not yet won IdeaWarz.

Oh am sure, someone would give me a spit to opined again to pack my things and go somewhere...well why dont this guys do the same thing..go to the mountain and do another CH like site with only their own pre-selected members strutting their great minds and infallible judgement.

What is collective intelligence if the powerful elite dominates and used their position to assert their maligned afterthoughts? Why dont we simply be matured enough and forge an intelligent collaboration instead?

All the collaborative mechanisms of Cambrian House are at your disposal. Joyce has won 100 Cambros. I have not disabled any accounts. Everyone who thought TeeWrapz! was a good idea can get cracking.

Posted: October 27, 2007, 11:15 am

I have the most unintelligent word Saigon has ever heard or read!

Dear Saigon,
The next time you call my cell phone when you are drunk and it is the middle of the night where you are, I'll show you what unintelligent words are.
Have a great day,
Sarah Blue

Posted: October 27, 2007, 12:20 pm

The Smile Project - Somehow I see a discussion framework on top of Flickr photos tagged with smile. (Flickr has great APIs.)

I was thinking the same thing after I wrote that paragraph

Posted: October 27, 2007, 1:45 pm

On October 27, 2007, 12:20 pm Blue said:

I have the most unintelligent word Saigon has ever heard or read!

Dear Saigon,
The next time you call my cell phone when you are drunk and it is the middle of the night where you are, I'll show you what unintelligent words are.
Have a great day,
Sarah Blue

I seriously hope that Saigon calling Blue is a joke...

Posted: October 27, 2007, 3:06 pm

Could be referring to this....

http://www.cambrianhouse.com/forums/topic/idea-brainstorming/1873/

Posted: October 27, 2007, 3:22 pm

On October 27, 2007, 11:15 am GordonMcDowell said:

Hey everyone to posted since my reply to Vanhees (LarsBell, GroundLoad, siddey, ccozad): Thanks for the feedback on this.

Specific questions about crowdsourceability (and rating it) is a great idea. On one hand it'll be sad to see some ideas not get submitted (in that some are good but not easy to crowdsource), but I'd rather sacrifice a few good ideas to help narrow the focus of our site, and make the criteria easier to articulate.

The Smile Project - Somehow I see a discussion framework on top of Flickr photos tagged with smile. (Flickr has great APIs.)

Saigon said...
While it's perfectly legitimate to criticize any idea here it such more saddening people promote an agenda via their position and powerful tool.

Our agenda is having a fun site where people can collaborate on refining and implementing interesting ideas.

A future of TeeWrapz! caliber ideas is not what I'm going to spend my life facilitating. If Cambrian House has to choose between a future of inferior ideas and shutting the site down, we will shut the site down.

Showcasing those oneliner supporter was such a malicious cheap shot against the author and those who believe in the idea!

I was mean about it because I don't like being gamed. You have been members of the Cambrian House community long enough to know how pointless it is to recruit friends and family to vote up your idea.

Gord additional bashing didnt help much to give fair assesement too.Was the similar quoted idea so stupid to being in the business for over 30 years?.. did you guys never heard market taste and product life cycle?

I would be happy to see TeeWrapz! succeed. Go for it! Best of luck.

I wonder If someone reinvent paper clip and fastener and win in the Ideawarz coming from native North-am would get the same bashing.

Hard to say. Because a re-invented paper clip has not yet won IdeaWarz.

Oh am sure, someone would give me a spit to opined again to pack my things and go somewhere...well why dont this guys do the same thing..go to the mountain and do another CH like site with only their own pre-selected members strutting their great minds and infallible judgement.

What is collective intelligence if the powerful elite dominates and used their position to assert their maligned afterthoughts? Why dont we simply be matured enough and forge an intelligent collaboration instead?

All the collaborative mechanisms of Cambrian House are at your disposal. Joyce has won 100 Cambros. I have not disabled any accounts. Everyone who thought TeeWrapz! was a good idea can get cracking.

I got to be brave and true on this one...before i hit the golf ball few minutes from now.
Thanks for not disabling my account!

*pulls pin, throws and runs*

Posted: October 27, 2007, 5:26 pm

Thank you CH for featuring me on that video..i had my few secs of fame!

Enjoy mob hunting
*running*

Posted: October 27, 2007, 5:33 pm

On October 27, 2007, 6:05 am saigon said:
A weekly tournament with an average of 20 ideas now and about 50 early adopter voters surely will have this kind of pitfall.

While I can't really agree with most of what Saigon says, this really is a good point. The participation is low in voting and so even a moderate level of promotion with an average idea can make it a winner.

I also don't know why "the crowd" was thrown under the bus when the small crowd is really the problem. Blue's definition defines crowdsourcing as "generally large group of people." I don't think we quite constitute that.

I'd also throw into the fray, that most of the active users on the site have thrown in their best ideas and we're not going to get many more good ideas out of those that are already participating. I wonder if starting to build some of these ideas (like I'm doing) won't spur innovation and other ideas which will become game changing (see Youtube amongst others which I can't remember now).

gord said:
I was mean about it because I don't like being gamed. You have been members of the Cambrian House community long enough to know how pointless it is to recruit friends and family to vote up your idea.

I think it's not quite in context to say that they gamed you. I believe gaming requires them to do something that violates a rule or law. They didn't as far as I know. In fact, they did what has been promoted and rewarded, promote their idea and CH. Did they possibly exploit a flawed system for 100 Cambros? Quite possibly.

It's interesting that CH has come from MJ wanting every and any idea listed on CH to now only wanting ideas that fit a certain model. Something for which was suggested near the beginning. I'm all for this type of filering of ideas to those relevant to crowdsourcing and technology. Once we have the crowdsourcing technology down, then move on to other types of crowdsourcing.

Posted: October 27, 2007, 7:19 pm

On October 27, 2007, 6:05 am saigon said:
A weekly tournament with an average of 20 ideas now and about 50 early adopter voters surely will have this kind of pitfall.

On October 27, 2007, 7:19 pm techguy said:
While I can't really agree with most of what Saigon says, this really is a good point. The participation is low in voting and so even a moderate level of promotion with an average idea can make it a winner.

I don't think anyone is doubting this but I also don't think it's the real problem (it just makes it more difficult to combat the issue). Recent comments are more focused on instigating cultural/attitudinal change amongst the crowd for the better of the site.

My view is that it shouldn't matter how many people are voting so long as they're assessing an idea on its merits and relevance to CH, in an unbiased manner (the two criteria go hand in hand). What we see every now and then is a significant skewing of something that would normally dwell below the surface. A popularity contest takes place in which people ignore all the normal criteria upon which they would assess an idea.

On October 27, 2007, 7:19 pm techguy said:
I'd also throw into the fray, that most of the active users on the site have thrown in their best ideas and we're not going to get many more good ideas out of those that are already participating.

Big call! I'd like to think I can still come up with some more ideas prior to me shuffling off this mortal coil.

On October 27, 2007, 7:19 pm techguy said:

gord said:
I was mean about it because I don't like being gamed. You have been members of the Cambrian House community long enough to know how pointless it is to recruit friends and family to vote up your idea.

I think it's not quite in context to say that they gamed you. I believe gaming requires them to do something that violates a rule or law.

Rules can be written and unwritten. In CH's case, I think a lot are unwritten and are only picked up by spending a lot of time on CH, reading posts and following CH staffer blogs. I think CH needs to work on extracting and articulating the CH guiding principles. That way even new comers can get off to a flying start.

It's such a no-brainer to say to people that CH is not a place to vote for your mates, so this should be front and centre in the idea creation stages and voting stages of the site.

Posted: October 27, 2007, 9:10 pm