Cambrian House
You got a great point here. Undoubtedly the advent of Youtube compatible mobile browsers has set the stage for video tours. And I imagine the video tour will soon replace the audio tour. I think JP is right, and we should definitely encourage video content. But some complications do arise: (1) videos are obviously larger and more costly to host. (2) The average user will probably prefer (for now at least) downloading/streaming smaller audio files. (3) video content requires a bit more work to create and edit.
Some minor concerns, but hey, best we resolve them before a competitor does
We have discussed holding off on the 'gizmo' side of things for now. Once we have audio/video content, modes of distribution will be plentiful. Sort of like Wikipedia: they provide the user generated content, which is then used in innumerable ways. Once we have identified the best ways of distributing content (beyond the standard mp3 player) we can make those formats available.
Another excellent point. I have envisioned a sort of micro-franchise experience. This might mean that regional moderators would have to invest (or locate sponsors) to purchase a recorder and microphone of a certain standard. General user contributions will not be easy to standardize, but still, the most ghastly and unintelligible submissions could always be weeded out by the moderators.
Definitely. It will be challenging enough to produce quality audio in large quantities. Video poses challenges (namely size) that we aren't yet equipped to deal with. But we can keep it there in some corner of our collective brain/wiki.
I have been thinking that archives of general location-based audio, text and video content could be another service that we could provide.
Such 'raw' material would not necessarily need to fit in with the tours, but could be used by clients and users as a sort of archive to create tours or any other location-based service down the road.
I think that if we went down the route it could possibly assist in driving repeat traffic to the site.....which would assist us in hooking up advertising. People would start to perhaps use it as a tool...
..there would probably be value in attaching a forum section to the site to facilitate user interaction and a sense of community amongst the content developers (this is one possible way of creating enthusiam for the development of content....people tend to egg each other on, driving quality, artistic focus and sheer volume)
The flip side is it is a fair departure from the current business model, we could possibly separate the two and just affiliate them but does this reduce the benefits to OGG??
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oggtours
Concerns
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jay
    Member since: Jul 9, 2006 Rank: Noble (65 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
a) what will an audio-only content site 'feel' like to subscribers, once the site is launched... when in the face of the sexy video content 'explosion' going on right now on the internet? will this leave people wanting? will competitors soon fill this gap if OGGtours is successful?
You got a great point here. Undoubtedly the advent of Youtube compatible mobile browsers has set the stage for video tours. And I imagine the video tour will soon replace the audio tour. I think JP is right, and we should definitely encourage video content. But some complications do arise: (1) videos are obviously larger and more costly to host. (2) The average user will probably prefer (for now at least) downloading/streaming smaller audio files. (3) video content requires a bit more work to create and edit.
Some minor concerns, but hey, best we resolve them before a competitor does
b) describe the 'user experience'[in layman's terms, please] of using these GPS-enabled gizmos; how will we ensure that live streaming based on geo-location is available everywhere in the wolrd for them? who besides Blackberry does this?[or at least tries], and what is the cost of the these gadgets? will OGGtours sell them?, margins?
We have discussed holding off on the 'gizmo' side of things for now. Once we have audio/video content, modes of distribution will be plentiful. Sort of like Wikipedia: they provide the user generated content, which is then used in innumerable ways. Once we have identified the best ways of distributing content (beyond the standard mp3 player) we can make those formats available.
c)will OGGtours standardize the Country Moderator's 'gear', both for the purpose of providing a certain level of quality to the narrations and monitor content[thus be able to 'moderate'], mostly in real time, most of the content that is posted?
Another excellent point. I have envisioned a sort of micro-franchise experience. This might mean that regional moderators would have to invest (or locate sponsors) to purchase a recorder and microphone of a certain standard. General user contributions will not be easy to standardize, but still, the most ghastly and unintelligible submissions could always be weeded out by the moderators.
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siddey
Member since: Oct 14, 2006 Rank: Chief (408 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
I don't think we should feel any pressure to deploy videos anytime soon as the theory behind the current site is that you're already looking at the thing you want to learn about.
You don't want to watch a video, you want to explore your surroundings and listen to a tour.
A video showing what you're already looking at is arguably not adding much more value but I can see that adding images would help to pinpoint certain things being discussed.
Can we describe a situation in which having a video of a location is going to add value to an audio tour? Maybe this is a future feature in which people submit their videos of their holidays and this helps others to decide where they would like to go???
You don't want to watch a video, you want to explore your surroundings and listen to a tour.
A video showing what you're already looking at is arguably not adding much more value but I can see that adding images would help to pinpoint certain things being discussed.
Can we describe a situation in which having a video of a location is going to add value to an audio tour? Maybe this is a future feature in which people submit their videos of their holidays and this helps others to decide where they would like to go???
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voxgirl
Member since: Aug 8, 2007 Rank: Peasant (5 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
the question about video is something to think about jp. for the moment though i think it best to focus on the foundation of the concept - audio - and get that running to a point where people are wanting to perhaps partner with OGGTours to provide video capability.
taking into consideration that people will be 'at' the location they are getting an audio tour of, video could just be distracting. Todd's input about having main attraction pics could serve a purpose. say for identifying landmarks or as trail markers so to speak.
an idea i thought of:
what if we approach the audio tours to be sort of like an old radio show. where it was all about the sounds and the story, which took the imagination anywhere.
creating a template of 'things to cover' while creating
an OGGTour would enable us to maintain consistency in tours submitted as well as quality and interesting content. it would allow us to weed out the lesser quality tours - if they didn't follow the submission template then we don't review/consider the tour for inclusion on the site.
voxgirl
taking into consideration that people will be 'at' the location they are getting an audio tour of, video could just be distracting. Todd's input about having main attraction pics could serve a purpose. say for identifying landmarks or as trail markers so to speak.
an idea i thought of:
what if we approach the audio tours to be sort of like an old radio show. where it was all about the sounds and the story, which took the imagination anywhere.
creating a template of 'things to cover' while creating
an OGGTour would enable us to maintain consistency in tours submitted as well as quality and interesting content. it would allow us to weed out the lesser quality tours - if they didn't follow the submission template then we don't review/consider the tour for inclusion on the site.
voxgirl
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siddey
Member since: Oct 14, 2006 Rank: Chief (408 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Voxgirl - I like your suggestion to use templates for QA purposes. What are some of the things that should / could go into it?
I agree consistency across tours (from a quality perspective) is important especially if a bunch of us are going to be putting some together independently.
I agree consistency across tours (from a quality perspective) is important especially if a bunch of us are going to be putting some together independently.
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jay
Member since: Jul 9, 2006 Rank: Noble (65 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
I actually think we need to keep video on the table. There are many places that video could come in handy, such as archival footage of a place or historical event. I have been working more on the tour of Dharamsala, India and old video footage of places that once stood where only parking lots now lay is actually very interesting to watch on location.
I also now live near Griffith Park in Hollywood, where 'Rebel Without a Cause' was filmed. I think it would be cool to actually watch clips of James Dean standing in the same place I am standing. In fact, one Hollywood bus tour company makes millions of dollars every year doing this very thing. The same goes for the famous Hollywood Forever cemetary...interesting to watch film footage of Hollywood stars as you stand beside their tombs.
Anyway, I wouldn't rule video out..lots of possibilities there. But I agree, its also good to keep focus on audio for the time being, until we prove ourselves, and gather more resources.
I also now live near Griffith Park in Hollywood, where 'Rebel Without a Cause' was filmed. I think it would be cool to actually watch clips of James Dean standing in the same place I am standing. In fact, one Hollywood bus tour company makes millions of dollars every year doing this very thing. The same goes for the famous Hollywood Forever cemetary...interesting to watch film footage of Hollywood stars as you stand beside their tombs.
Anyway, I wouldn't rule video out..lots of possibilities there. But I agree, its also good to keep focus on audio for the time being, until we prove ourselves, and gather more resources.
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siddey
Member since: Oct 14, 2006 Rank: Chief (408 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Jay - you make a very good point! I can see the relevance of video in those situations.
Still though, this is arguably for a later evolution of the website don't you think?
Still though, this is arguably for a later evolution of the website don't you think?
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jay
Member since: Jul 9, 2006 Rank: Noble (65 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Still though, this is arguably for a later evolution of the website don't you think?
Definitely. It will be challenging enough to produce quality audio in large quantities. Video poses challenges (namely size) that we aren't yet equipped to deal with. But we can keep it there in some corner of our collective brain/wiki.
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siddey
Member since: Oct 14, 2006 Rank: Chief (408 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Ok, I've added this to r0.4 of the braindump doc in the wiki plus some of the clarifications made as a result of answering Ideawarz queries from CH.
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hro_jim
Member since: Aug 2, 2007 Rank: Merchant (39 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
What if we set the template for tour inclusion into the premium service. We could set the numbers for recognition/payment of premium tours to a lower level than those that do not make the grade and are part of the basic service.
We could also identify those tours that are basic and premium so a premium service customer can see both sets but will know when they are picking less than perfect content..
We could also classify content by subject type, style, content. Then have specials for tours that rate a particular type to motivate contributors to go for that style (ie 1 point normal for a nightlife non-template tour but 5 points for the month of October for a nighlife non-templated tour of Tokyo and 10 points for a templated one).
Just a thought..
Jim
We could also identify those tours that are basic and premium so a premium service customer can see both sets but will know when they are picking less than perfect content..
We could also classify content by subject type, style, content. Then have specials for tours that rate a particular type to motivate contributors to go for that style (ie 1 point normal for a nightlife non-template tour but 5 points for the month of October for a nighlife non-templated tour of Tokyo and 10 points for a templated one).
Just a thought..
Jim
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nutoere
Member since: Sep 20, 2007 Rank: Peasant (9 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
One thing to keep in mind if we want to go down the Vid route is that it is a lot easier to produce a semi professional sound clip than it is to produce a similar quality video.
IMHO There would need to be a much higher level of editing and QA than for the voice only content......my 2cents
IMHO There would need to be a much higher level of editing and QA than for the voice only content......my 2cents
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siddey
Member since: Oct 14, 2006 Rank: Chief (408 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Nutoere - Fair point!
I'm not sure how to crack that nut. There are both bad and good points about having amateurish video content.
Being amateurish could help us find the next great video talent/personality, or it could just make us look like a bunch of hacks.
Maybe it's where we use the video that counts.
Perhaps the video elements would be clearly branded as user submitted content and are really addendums / blogs of member experiences attached to each audio tour and are not in any way intending to be a true / factual / intelligent learning experience.
I'm not sure how to crack that nut. There are both bad and good points about having amateurish video content.
Being amateurish could help us find the next great video talent/personality, or it could just make us look like a bunch of hacks.
Maybe it's where we use the video that counts.
Perhaps the video elements would be clearly branded as user submitted content and are really addendums / blogs of member experiences attached to each audio tour and are not in any way intending to be a true / factual / intelligent learning experience.
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jay
Member since: Jul 9, 2006 Rank: Noble (65 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
On September 25, 2007, 11:05 pm siddey said:
Maybe it's where we use the video that counts.
Perhaps the video elements would be clearly branded as user submitted content and are really addendums / blogs of member experiences attached to each audio tour and are not in any way intending to be a true / factual / intelligent learning experience.
I have been thinking that archives of general location-based audio, text and video content could be another service that we could provide.
Such 'raw' material would not necessarily need to fit in with the tours, but could be used by clients and users as a sort of archive to create tours or any other location-based service down the road.
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hro_jim
Member since: Aug 2, 2007 Rank: Merchant (39 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
Once we are funded, we could hire a few people to actually search public domain video/audio/photo footage..Put together some stuff that looks good to add to our tour collection..
Tours could be audio only; audio/with still photos (even a few photo slideshow) and video..
Maybe reserve video for professionally done ones...Or put a disclaimer that user submitted video might be turned down if the quality is not deemed appropriate to our viewers. blah blah blah..
Tours could be audio only; audio/with still photos (even a few photo slideshow) and video..
Maybe reserve video for professionally done ones...Or put a disclaimer that user submitted video might be turned down if the quality is not deemed appropriate to our viewers. blah blah blah..
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nutoere
Member since: Sep 20, 2007 Rank: Peasant (9 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
On September 26, 2007, 5:01 am jay said:
I have been thinking that archives of general location-based audio, text and video content could be another service that we could provide.
Such 'raw' material would not necessarily need to fit in with the tours, but could be used by clients and users as a sort of archive to create tours or any other location-based service down the road.
I think that if we went down the route it could possibly assist in driving repeat traffic to the site.....which would assist us in hooking up advertising. People would start to perhaps use it as a tool...
..there would probably be value in attaching a forum section to the site to facilitate user interaction and a sense of community amongst the content developers (this is one possible way of creating enthusiam for the development of content....people tend to egg each other on, driving quality, artistic focus and sheer volume)
The flip side is it is a fair departure from the current business model, we could possibly separate the two and just affiliate them but does this reduce the benefits to OGG??
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hro_jim
Member since: Aug 2, 2007 Rank: Merchant (39 Posts) |
[Quote Member] |
One thing I just thought of...Jay you probably need to get a disclaimer for any material submitted is public domain and the author gives up the ownership of the images/audio..
We dont wanna get caught in the middle of someone taking a great shot and using it on a cover of a mag or something and then the author suing the mag and us for allowing someone to use...
A thought..
Jim
We dont wanna get caught in the middle of someone taking a great shot and using it on a cover of a mag or something and then the author suing the mag and us for allowing someone to use...
A thought..
Jim
b) describe the 'user experience'[in layman's terms, please] of using these GPS-enabled gizmos; how will we ensure that live streaming based on geo-location is available everywhere in the wolrd for them? who besides Blackberry does this?[or at least tries], and what is the cost of the these gadgets? will OGGtours sell them?, margins?
c)will OGGtours standardize the Country Moderator's 'gear', both for the purpose of providing a certain level of quality to the narrations and monitor content[thus be able to 'moderate'], mostly in real time, most of the content that is posted?
Posted: September 10, 2007, 10:39 pm